Anyone ever mail-order some malt extract and have it arrive actively fermenting? I didn't even know that malt extract on its own could ferment, but I got sixteen pounds of rice LME recently from an online supplier (that shall remain nameless), and one bucket of it had popped open in the box. I thought it was just a leak or maybe a temperature/pressure problem at first, but when I opened it up it was actively bubbling and smelled quite yeasty. I resealed it, but sure enough the next day it had popped open again and spilled more extract onto the floor. The other bucket was also bubbling and yeasty-smelling, but it hasn't spontaneously popped its own lid off as of yet. Weird! That's gotta be some serious yeast that can ferment undiluted extract!
Malt Extract Spontaneously Fermenting?
- Thread starter igliashon
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Dunerunner
Well-Known Member
Pics, Pics!! Please.......
Fizzycist
Well-Known Member
Number 1: Rice LME? God, why?. You makin' sake?
And B: Don't let them remain unnamed, help us avoid a bad vendor!
Thirdly: Snag a yeast sample? See what it does in a real brew?
And B: Don't let them remain unnamed, help us avoid a bad vendor!
Thirdly: Snag a yeast sample? See what it does in a real brew?
jeepinjeepin
Well-Known Member
I would lean towards bacteria. That's a pretty tough ferment for yeast.
malevolent
Well-Known Member
Was it repackaged malt extract? If so, chances are the supplier didn't sanitize well and you got some wild yeasts and bacteria introduced.
I'd contact the vendor and ask them to replace it and tell them you had a huge mess to clean up so they throw in some stuff. I would at least give them a chance to make it right before you disclose who it was.
I would at least give them a chance to make it right before you disclose who it was.
MisterTipsy
Well-Known Member
Did you buy your LME from a guy who lives under a bridge?
The vendor should get you new lme if you inform them the package came blown open. Don't give out the name of the vendor unless they don't fix it, and even when they do fix it, write a post commending them on their great customer service that they fixed a mistake.
Fizzycist
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's true, give them a chance to fix it before ratting them out.
Good customer service is getting it right the first time. If a company overlooks basic principles of packaging a product they, in theory, should know all about that is not good customer service. Their lack of attention to detail made a mess and slowed down the process by making him wait even longer.
Great customer service is getting it right the first time.
A near impossibility is to get it right the first time, every time.
Anyone can make mistakes or have a problem. They may not find out about a problem like this until well after it leaves their premises.
Good customer service is making the transaction acceptable to the recipient and correcting any internal problems swiftly.
igliashon
Well-Known Member
I'll post pics later today. I e-mailed them about it but I don't expect to hear back from them until Monday. I won't name them until after they respond, I really hope they'll make it right because they're the only place I know that sells rice LME. I'm fairly sure it was repackaged, most homebrew stores keep their LME in big drums that they dispense into jars or buckets or other packages. Oh, and the guy asking about why I would buy rice LME clearly didn't read my signature. :cross:
jeepinjeepin
Well-Known Member
igliashon said:
Is it Briess brown rice lme? If so, I feel sure any Briess dealer could get it for you.
True. Plus it could be an employee error. In that case you can't really blame the business. It just erks me when simple things are overlooked. It's like mailing something fragile in an envelope. If you don't take obvious precautions your rate of failure increases dramatically.
igliashon
Well-Known Member
It is, and you're probably technically correct, but nowhere I've looked stocks it regularly and I'm not sure they could order it for me in such small quantities at a price-point that makes it worthwhile. The place I got this stuff from sells it at a great price, cheaper even than my LHBS sells sorghum LME. If it was a bit more expensive, it'd be cheaper to just get Brown Rice Syrup from Whole Foods, since my girlfriend works there and I get a discount.
amandabab
Well-Known Member
this.
they had a chance to make it right. they failed. having to call and jump through hoops to get what you already paid for is bad customer service.
jeepinjeepin
Well-Known Member
igliashon said:
If they order it within another order at least the shipping would be covered. I don't know the price difference between a dealer buying 1,10, or 100. I guess it also depends on their markup.
amandabab said:
In my mind any company can and will make a mistake at some point. And i think I have had orders messed up from all of the big vendors here on hbt. What keeps me as a customer is when all I do is call once, explain the problem and they correct it right away. To me this is a good company. Obviously if every order I get is screwed up, then that's another issue, but a once in a great while screw up I can accept.
If a company fights me for what is their fault, then I don't shop there any further.
Customer service is simple when you never make a mistake. The true test of a company is what they do when they do make a mistake. There are a lot of companies (not just HBS) that I don't do business with anymore because they didn't fix a mistake to my satisfaction. There are also a few companies that I go to first every time because I know that whatever happens they will make it right.
Fizzycist
Well-Known Member
Woops, there it is! Heh, good job keepin on brewing under trying conditions. I didn't see any cider in your sig; are you not a fan?
igliashon
Well-Known Member
I like cider well enough, but there's plenty of good stuff at the market that I don't have much incentive to brew it myself. The utter lack of stouts, IPAs, porters, strong ales, etc. etc. really provides incentives for homebrewing beer! It'd be like if y'all lived somewhere where all they sold was Coors Lite. That's my life, 24/7, no matter WHERE I go!
Not only should they do whatever they can to make you happy given their shipping 'defective' product, they should replace the order and ship it free of charge. But to echo others here I'm of the opinion that great customer service is measured by how well they respond to when (and with any business, there will be a when) something goes wrong with one of their business transactions. And yes IMHO they should remain nameless unless they fail to respond to your situation favorably.
This scenario perplexes me. The reason why honey does not mold is due to the high osmololity of the solution. extracts should be no different. When organisms fall on the surface they actually dehydrate to attempt to create an equal osmolality of the inside and outside. This should be the same with all liquid extracts. This is also why sugar or salt is often used in canning.
igliashon
Well-Known Member
Bucket 1:
Bucket 2:
Not pictured: the intense yeasty aroma!
So, these are from High Gravity. They got back to me early this morning to say a replacement is on its way free of charge, no questions asked. They also said this is not the first time this has happened, and apparently this syrup is unusually susceptible to wild fermentation. Given what I know about syrups (basically, echo what cockybitz said about osmolarity and the preservative effect of properly-concentrated sugar syrups), I strongly suspect the problem is with Briess, not with High Gravity. They are probably making their syrup too weak and/or too watery, because a properly-concentrated syrup should be impossible for any micro-organism to ferment, regardless of how unsanitary the conditions are. So I give due props to High Gravity for excellent and swift customer service, and hope that Briess will in turn reimburse them for their faulty product.
Bucket 2:
Not pictured: the intense yeasty aroma!
So, these are from High Gravity. They got back to me early this morning to say a replacement is on its way free of charge, no questions asked. They also said this is not the first time this has happened, and apparently this syrup is unusually susceptible to wild fermentation. Given what I know about syrups (basically, echo what cockybitz said about osmolarity and the preservative effect of properly-concentrated sugar syrups), I strongly suspect the problem is with Briess, not with High Gravity. They are probably making their syrup too weak and/or too watery, because a properly-concentrated syrup should be impossible for any micro-organism to ferment, regardless of how unsanitary the conditions are. So I give due props to High Gravity for excellent and swift customer service, and hope that Briess will in turn reimburse them for their faulty product.
Is the syrup thick or thin? Crystallized by any chance?
That is my thought. I've had raw honey ferment when it crystallized. The thin liquid is low enough in sugar that yeast will start eating.
Had 5 gallon bucket of raw wildflower honey overflow when this happened. Talk about a mess to clean up!
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