Brew Magic to electric

I'm picking up a brew magic system tomorrow that's setup to run on residential natural gas. I don't have NG and I'd like to go all electric.

Since the brew magic already has an electric control for an e-RIMS mash tun, I'd only need to convert the HLT and BK.

Seems feasible that I could do a basic control box with one PID with the inputs wired to a socket to plug in the heater elements and temp probes where I could plug in the appropriate plugs when using the HLT and switch them over when I'm ready to boil.

I could probably keep the current RIMS system in place.

Has anyone on the forum gone through the effort of doing something like this? Someone posted a comment on theelectricbrewery.com about converting the brew magic over and I'm hoping that person is a member here.

Thoughts/Suggestions?



EDIT: 4/24/2012

This went from refurbishing a Sabco Brew Magic system from the ground up, converting it to electric from NG, and maintaining the RIMS portion of mash temp maintenance, to a HERMS build with a wiring diagram and some design influence from P-J. Eventually, after the build is complete, I'll post as much of the details (wiring diagram, parts list, etc) on this first post, and leave as much of the rest of the thread intact to see the design changes and thought process unfold and develop. The idea was to have an electric brewery with temperature controlled, recirculating mash designed to be as portable as possible for when my family moves. As sexy as Kal's build is, I didn't need some of the extra bells and whistles. I probably could have gone simpler (junction boxes instead of the triclover element housings, etc).

Here is the wiring diagram I'm working with, but I'm added a pair of indicator lights to show when the element is firing and maybe a keyed 2 position power switch.

personally I would look into coverting to propane. It would be cheaper

hopsalot said:

personally I would look into coverting to propane. It would be cheaper

Click to expand...

I know the conversion would be, but I'd like to go electric. No fumes and cheaper operating expenses, and what appears to be easier temperature control.

I dont see why you couldnt. Brew magic will tell you when to lite your burners, or in your case a "burner" would be your heating element. Sounds like a cool way to mod the system.

How old is the BM you are getting?

They have not been, out of the box, programmed for heat rises via heating element.

GilaMinumBeer said:

How old is the BM you are getting?

They have not been, out of the box, programmed for heat rises via heating element.

Click to expand...

dont they have a thermo couple that tells you to turn your burner on/off? This is my understanding, so I would not see any issue with substituing heating sources

Not saying it couldn't be done, just that by design the controller is not utilized for heat ramps. The RIMS chamber is strictly for heat maintenance. So, unless a secondary element were installed the controller would have to be re-programmed for heat changes.

1999 I believe. I was really looking at building a reciculating e-BIAB system, but I can't pass this up considering it has the pump(s), three vessels, RIMS, stand, plumbing, etc. It probably won't have the fancy new touch screen, but I don't need that. It's cheaper than building the electric system I was considering by more than half.

I was looking for relatively simple. I've been and extract/occasional PM brewer for about 100 gallons. I'm ready for all-grain.

I want to be able to do 10 gallon batches and need to upgrade basically everything I have to get to that capacity.

GilaMinumBeer said:

Not saying it couldn't be done, just that by design the controller is not utilized for heat ramps. The RIMS chamber is strictly for heat maintenance. So, unless a secondary element were installed the controller would have to be re-programmed for heat changes.

Click to expand...

agreed, you would have to have a stand alone electric heating system

GilaMinumBeer said:

Not saying it couldn't be done, just that by design the controller is not utilized for heat ramps. The RIMS chamber is strictly for heat maintenance. So, unless a secondary element were installed the controller would have to be re-programmed for heat changes.

Click to expand...

Is it more complicated than bumping up the desired temp? Or add a heating element to the MLT that is either on or off for the large jump in temp from protein rest to mash to mash out or anything in between. Or am I completely missing something?

jtkratzer said:

Or add a heating element to the MLT that is either on or off for the large jump in temp from protein rest to mash to mash out or anything in between.

Click to expand...

you are going to need to do this.

when the mash temp is compromised or a step is in order the system will instruct you to turn your burner on to maintin or step up temperature. In your case you will need a heating element in your mashtun.

jtkratzer said:

Is it more complicated than bumping up the desired temp? Or add a heating element to the MLT that is either on or off for the large jump in temp from protein rest to mash to mash out or anything in between. Or am I completely missing something?

Click to expand...

I dunno. I have no reference to what controller was used for the older systems. I just know that with the current controller and the controller immediately prior you can only maintain a temp through the RIMs tube. Thus, you are forced to achieve said temp by some other means. Typically propane or NG.

You will have the stand,pumps,kettles and plumbing.
If it were me, I build (or have someone build) an electric control panel and forgo the old sabco electronics.

So on/off is the only control I would need to replace the purpose of the external heat from NG/LP with an electric element, right?

Layne said:

You will have the stand,pumps,kettles and plumbing.
If it were me, I build (or have someone build) an electric control panel and forgo the old sabco electronics.

Click to expand...

Essentially, that's the plan. I picked up a PID, temp probe, and some misc parts earlier this week.

jtkratzer said:

So on/off is the only control I would need to replace the purpose of the external heat from NG/LP with an electric element, right?

Click to expand...

Replace? No.

Supplement. Yes.

Any other ideas? I was looking at theelectricbrewery.com for some ideas as well as this thread for control box ideas:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/my-official-e-biab-build-thread-269164/

That was also the route I was looking to go with the recirculating eBIAB project.

jtkratzer said:

I know the conversion would be, but I'd like to go electric. No fumes and cheaper operating expenses, and what appears to be easier temperature control.

Click to expand...

Its cheaper to operate, but it would take a very long time of brewing with electricity to break even. Converting to electric is not cheap! Cost saving is not the reason to do it. It is better for the other reasons you mentioned, though!

kevink said:

Its cheaper to operate, but it would take a very long time of brewing with electricity to break even. Converting to electric is not cheap! Cost saving is not the reason to do it. It is better for the other reasons you mentioned, though!

Click to expand...

Primarily, I want the convenience of never running out of fuel and the need for ventilation for fumes, etc. I was surprised at how much propane I use just doing 5 gallon or less boils for extract beers, let alone firing an HLT, MLT, and up to a two hour boil. I wouldn't be surprised if that was half of a tank plus per batch.

jtkratzer said:

Any other ideas? I was looking at theelectricbrewery.com for some ideas as well as this thread for control box ideas:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/my-official-e-biab-build-thread-269164/

That was also the route I was looking to go with the recirculating eBIAB project.

Click to expand...

jtkratzer,

There are many possibilities for you with going all electric. You had stated that you picked up a PID and temp probe. Whick one did you get?

BTW, I drew the diagram in your linked thread. If you would want to have a wiring diagram for your setup, think about what you wish to accomplish and let me know. Also, please describe your system as I'm not familiar with it. I'll see what I can come up with that will help you.

I've posted a lot of diagrams on this forum. There might be one now that would work for you.

P-J

P-J said:

jtkratzer,

There are many possibilities for you with going all electric. You had stated that you picked up a PID and temp probe. Whick one did you get?

BTW, I drew the diagram in your linked thread. If you would want to have a wiring diagram for your setup, think about what you wish to accomplish and let me know. Also, please describe your system as I'm not familiar with it. I'll see what I can come up with that will help you.

I've posted a lot of diagrams on this forum. There might be one now that would work for you.

P-J

Click to expand...

P-J,

I've noticed how many you've helped on the forum and I've been lurking on the e-builds threads. johnodon and I have swapped emails about getting together on a brew day to see his system in action.

I'm picking up a used Sabco Brew Magic tomorrow. It's on older version, but essentially, it's a NG or LP fired, three kettle, two tier system with a RIMS mash tun.

I'd like to eliminate the NG/LP burners and go all electric and maintain the RIMS aspect of the mash.

I bought an Auber SYL-2352 and some other components from another forum member to start the build. I figured it would be useful in either the e-BIAB system or in converting the Sabco system.

As far as what I want...I'll have the MLT, MLT, and BK and as stated, I want all electric. I don't think I need to go to the level of detail as found on theelectricbrewery.com with volt/amp measurements.

I'm new to all grain and I'm open to suggestions when it comes to the electric setup as well. I'll have to see what the temp control system is like for the RIMS that's currently on the system and decide whether I want to keep it or if I'll scrap it and build one control box for the entire system. It uses NG currently to do the large increases in temp for the MLT and electric for the temp maintenance. BK and HLT are also NG fired.

If I keep the temp maintenance control present, I'll need a PID for the HLT and I'd think just a switch to turn heat on and off for large steps on the MLT and for boiling in the BK. I believe the system only has one pump to move water/wort.

If I scrap the current RIMS system control, I'll need PIDs for that and the HLT and I suppose if I wanted to get crazy, I could use PIDs for the heat on the MLT and BK to control the power output to those elements.

We can do this. No problem. When you get your system in hand, I'd like to see pix of it and also the RIMS setup. I think you will like what can be done with an all electric setup. I believe you only 'need' one pump. Single batches are simple and not all that expensive to setup. Back to batch batches require a little more in controllers. What power do you have available for your brew area - 240V 30A or 240V 50A?

BTW, Kal's plan and build is fairly neat. (http://theelectricbrewery.com) There is no need to go that far to have a decent system.

Do you want to also keep the possibility to use it as a gas system? I "think" it can be setup to run either way.

Let's see some pix and lets go from there. Ok?

P-J

On my way home with the brew magic, 5 cornies, 2 CO2 tanks, and an unmolested sanke half barrel.

Yeeee Haaaaa

Woo hoo. Must be exciting! Molest that sanke!

passedpawn said:

Woo hoo. Must be exciting! Molest that sanke!

Click to expand...

Thinking about turning into a fermenter...should work well for 10 gallon batches right?

jtkratzer said:

On my way home with the brew magic, 5 cornies, 2 CO2 tanks, and an unmolested sankey half barrel.

Click to expand...

WOW.!! You did good.

Cant wait to see your rig. I think it'll be fun putting together a custom electric build for you. (That is if you want me to. - Hell I'll do it anyway. lol...)

BTW, don't 'molest' the Sanke keg just yet. I think it could be an excellent fermenter for your brews. My brain is buzzing.

P-J

jtkratzer said:

Thinking about turning into a fermenter...should work well for 10 gallon batches right?

Click to expand...

See - See. I type with one finger and I took too long to post my comment. Darn.! Getting really old just plain sucks.! (but the mind still works. I think. lol... )

Definitely doesn't have the touch screen. Looks like a PID along with a selector switch the heat and pump. I'll post pictures tomorrow after I get it out of the truck and it's not pouring.

Looks like it has a pair of tri-clamps with the rubber gaskets, too.

This really looks like an exciting project. (At least for me.) I have a lot of ideas spinning in my head. The possibilities are ... Nevermind.

Getting old sucks.!

P-J said:

This really looks like an exciting project. (At least for me.) I have a lot of ideas spinning in my head. The possibilities are ... Nevermind.

Getting old sucks.!

Click to expand...

Not old, experienced and that results in lots of ideas/ways to get things done, right?

jtkratzer said:

Not old, experienced and that results in lots of ideas/ways to get things done, right?

Click to expand...

Thank you for that. Yea, I tend to think outside the box and then spend lots of time trying to explain my thinking.

Go figure.

I can't wait (I have to) to dig into the mind jumps for your system.

But that's just me.

P-J

Doesn't look good for unloading tonight. Rain is obnoxious, on top of the nearly 14" in the last 30 days, most of that coming from Irene and Lee. Streams are looking swollen and SWMBO isn't motivated to go out in the rain and help me get it out of the truck. Oh well. I think I'll wait until the morning and starting setting up in the garage and get cleaning/assembling.

I talked to Bob at Sabco about the system and getting some info/paperwork/manual/parts list in the event I need to replace something.

I'll get some pictures tomorrow, plug it in, and see what happens. P-J, we'll go from there. I'm really happy to have an eager volunteer to help me out with what will probably be the most challenging part of this - the electrical.

I'm thinking about taking a wire brush wheel to it to remove the rust around where the heat cooked the paint off and repainting since I'm going to go electric with this eventually.

Unloaded this morning and applied copious amounts of elbow grease to clean it up. Plugged it in and it lights up on the switch and PID. Hooked up enough plumbing to test the pump but water is draining out of the pump head. The lines to and from the pump are dry on the outside, so it has to be somewhere in the pump. And with the brew magic design of housing the pump in the control box, I have to let everything dry out completely before trying anything else involving power. I'm thinking about remounting the pump elsewhere on the stand since I don't have to protect it from flames/heat once the electric is running.

It has a Little Giant pump. I'm thinking it just needs a new o-ring to seal the head, which isn't stainless.

Pictures:

The vinyl hose is temporary until I figure out what the missing link is between the return line from the pump and the plumbing for the recirculating mash on the mash tun.

Vintage Control Box:


Guts:


Little Giant:


5 corny kegs sitting in a row:

I recently converted a 15 year BrewMagic to electric. Still using propane for the boil kettle burner. I swapped the old jet burner with a Banjo burner.

Some pictures of the control panel when turned on:

Initial display


After one click on the lower left button:


Another click:


The last screen pictured ranges from this:


To this:

Inside of the kettles (still need some more scrubbing):

HLT with something in the water in the bottom:


MLT:


BK:


Both thermometers look like this and are present on the HLT and BK, which also has a plastic sight glass:


Both thermometers were reading the same temp.