What's the worst that could happen?

Despite the board's attempts to discourage me from attempting such a big beer with my first all grain attempt, I have decided that I'm gonna give it a shot. It's a recipe I've worked up on my own for a Belgian Strong Dark Abbey style. This is the recipe:
14 lbs. Belgian Pilsner
2 lbs. Homemade dark candi sugar
.5 lbs. Caramunich
.5 lb. Biscuit
.5 lb. Aromatic
1 lb. Special B
1 oz. Challenger @ 40
1 oz. E.K.G. @ 20
Two stage starter yeast - WLP500
Mash at 150 for 90 min. Fly sparge 7.5 gallon. Boil 90 min. Pitch at 70, and let naturally heat to 80 and keep under 80 for two weeks. Keg, purge air, and pressurize to 30 psi and age at room temp for 3 weeks.

If anyone has any suggestions on the recipe 'd love to hear them but really, I'm more curious about technique. What should I expect, what should I be on the lookout for? What's the worst I could go wrong. I'm not too concerned with missing my target SG of 1.090. I figure a similar profile in a smaller beer would be a perfectly enjoyable result, but what might I do to keep it up?

Target numbers are 1.090 SG, 1.010-1.015 FG, 22 IBU, 10% ABV, 22 SRM

For what it's worth, you might want to mash a bit lower, like 149 or 150. Although, I don't really expect you to take that advice, since you said yourself that you don't listen.

You may also want to mash longer that 60 with that much grain. I would think a 90 minute mash at 150.... that was my problem with my last big beer, mashed to high for too short a time .... did not get the numbers I was looking for...

" I figure a similar profile in a smaller beer would be a perfectly enjoyable result, but what might I do to keep it up?"

Practice on some smaller beers first? Sorry - couldn't resist....

To maximize efficiency on a big brew, start with a very thin mash - ie more water per lb of grain. Stir the heck out of it when doughing in. Let it mash a bit longer than usual. Calculate your sparge water so that you get a gallon more than your recipe calls for. eg if your target starting boil volume is 7 gallons, collect a total of 8 gallons. Let it boil down in your brewpot until you hit 7 gallons and then start your normal 60 minute boil.

Have you fermented a big beer before? If not, you'll want to look into some of those procedures too.


The "worst" that can happen is you end up with a sickenly sweet brew from missing your mash temps and not fermenting fully.

@TheZymurgist - On the contrary: I said I cannot be discouraged. I can listen quite well. I am a bit confused as to lower mashing temp. The information I've read often uses the term "produces a dryer beer". Is that to say that is produces a more fermentable wort? In the case of a Belgian Strong a highly fermentable wort would be preferable, but a dry beer would not. I was hoping someone would touch on this, because many of the recipes I've looked through call for higher mash temps... but I thought lower would make more sense.

@BrewerinBR - Is there a point of ill effect, or very diminishing returns as far as increased mash time go, or is it better to go as long as I can hold temp?

@Bill - Yes, I've fermented large beers successfully. I intend to make a stir plate to enhance my starter for this beer.

The grain bills of Belgian ales lead to a very malty sweet beer. Sugar additions and low mash temperatures are traditionally used to dry the beer out and make it more balanced and more "digestible." A "dry finish" is highly desirable in Belgians - even more so in Trappist examples of the styles.

One of the things I love so much about the style is the sweetness. I think I may be overlapping my terms here. So mash 90 minutes at 150 in 1.5 quarts per pound?

A lot of the perceived sweetness comes from the yeast character, so a highly fermentable wort (and thus, "dry" beer) can still seem sweet, even though the residual sugars are quite low compared to other styles.

Most commercial Belgians are mashed low (or step mash), so if that's what you're trying to emulate, I would mash similarly.

TyTanium said:

A lot of the perceived sweetness comes from the yeast character, so a highly fermentable wort (and thus, "dry" beer) can still seem sweet, even though the residual sugars are quite low compared to other styles.

Most commercial Belgians are mashed low (or step mash), so if that's what you're trying to emulate, I would mash similarly.

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I agree.
The Trappist yeasts are aggressive and produce lots of pleasant esters that can sometimes be perceived as sweet. (I normally ferment these at 75F and hold temp) The specialty malts and the caramelized sugars in your syrup will contribute to additional sweetness. Trappist beers range from moderately dry to very dry (Triple). Mash low (148-150) and long to convert the majority of the pilsner. You want your FG to end up under 1.012 to keep it from turning out too sweet; it helps if you add the syrup to the primary a few days into fermentation. This can be challenging but your hard work will be rewarded! Good Luck.

Longer mash time (if you can hold the temp) will help the conversion of starch to sugars and increase efficiency so you get the most of the grain. Large grain volume longer mash time becasue there is more to convert..

Increasing the temp gradually during fermentation is just to encourage the highest possible attenuation, right? You forgo that process?

TheMerkle said:

Increasing the temp gradually during fermentation is just to encourage the highest possible attenuation, right? You forgo that process?

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That's the idea. I personally wouldn't ferment at 75 degrees, though. I like to start my Belgians at ~64 and let them free climb to about 68. When the fermentation slows I'll add heat (in the winter) or move them to a warmer room to get them up to the low to mid 70s in order to make sure they get enough attenuation.

TheMerkle said:

Increasing the temp gradually during fermentation is just to encourage the highest possible attenuation, right? You forgo that process?

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I don't think you mentioned the yeast strain but...
Belgium yeasties tend to do their worst (I mean best!) early on during the reproductive phase and at high temps. Some people like to extend this phase more so by under pitching. Keep in mind that these yeasties are like champagne yeast (they ferment quickly with high attenuation) so you should probably use some fermcap to keep from loosing too much beer in the blowoff even at low temperature (65F). That said, you don't have to do much to get these guys to fully attenuate other than feed them well. A highly fermentable wort will certainly do that.


I recently just fermented a wheat base for my fruit beers with WLP500 in my garage in the Texas heat (90F ambient). Hydro sample was very tropical as desired with no hint of jet fuel. Sitting in secondary on fruit right now. Should be a perfect panty dropper!

TheMerkle said:

@TheZymurgist - On the contrary: I said I cannot be discouraged. I can listen quite well. I am a bit confused as to lower mashing temp. The information I've read often uses the term "produces a dryer beer". Is that to say that is produces a more fermentable wort? In the case of a Belgian Strong a highly fermentable wort would be preferable, but a dry beer would not. I was hoping someone would touch on this, because many of the recipes I've looked through call for higher mash temps... but I thought lower would make more sense.

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True, true. You did say that.

Like the others have said, you'll still end up with a sweet beer. It's a mix of the perceived sweetness from the yeast, and the fact that your OG is higher. There will still be residual sweetness, even with the higher attenuation of the Belgian yeast. If you mash too high, you'll be left with a thick, cloying syrup-of-a-beer. A lot of the mouth-feel in Belgian styles comes from the carbonation, as well. They should be moderately to highly carbonated.

I edited the recipe to show the change in mash technique, as well as the yeast strain I intend to use (WLP500). Thanks so much for all of your input. These big Belgian beers are my passion and it is my goal in brewing to the be able to successfully reproduce them at home.

That's way too much crystal/cara malt. I'd cut that in half, or even lower.

After rereading the description for the Caramunich, I see what ya mean Yooper. Somewhere along the way I got it into my head that I should not use so much Pilsner either. Is there another grain I should consider cutting it with? ...or is there any reason that I should?

TheMerkle said:

After rereading the description for the Caramunich, I see what ya mean Yooper. Somewhere along the way I got it into my head that I should not use so much Pilsner either. Is there another grain I should consider cutting it with? ...or is there any reason that I should?

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Replace it with pilsner. EDIT: some of it

TheMerkle said:

After rereading the description for the Caramunich, I see what ya mean Yooper. Somewhere along the way I got it into my head that I should not use so much Pilsner either. Is there another grain I should consider cutting it with? ...or is there any reason that I should?

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All pilsner Belgians are awesome- so no need to cut the pilsner malt at all.

I'd probably cut the aromatic a bit, probably in half, as well. It's "intensely malty" by it's description, and even more than intensely malty in my tastebuds. The biscuit is likewise overpowering.

I've of the belief that "less is more" in many beers, so I'd suggest simplifiying this grainbill quite a bit. If not, at least reduce many of the specialty malts by half, and consider reducing some of the dark candi syrup as well.

After modifying the recipe per your suggestions, Yooper, I'm down to 15 SRM. While I know that this is acceptable for the style, it's much lower than St. Bernardus's Abt 12. Special B malt can up my color in a hurry, but I'm quite cautious about using it in much quantity. Any other suggestions for bolstering the color?

While I know that the color is acceptable for the style, it is just on the lighter side of the range, where my tastes would prefer the darker side.

Personally, I love the taste of Special B. If it were me, I'd increase it to at least 0.75 lb, if not 1 lb. That will darken it up a bit, and give it a nice raisin/plumb-like flavor.

I've read before that Special B was too intensely dark, and could offer the "wrong type of sweetness"... but I love the idea of dark fruit and plum flavors. I'll edit the recipe again.

The dark candy syrup will add a lot of color. Don't forget to add it in your calculations.

Just curious what you'll be mashing this in?

I've already got a converted keg brew kettle with all stainless fittings. My intention was to sell the first (for a profit ) and build a better quality kettle now that I know what I'm doing. Now, I'm thinking instead that I may just go ahead and make the jump to a three keggle system. I bought an SS false bottom and the rest of the hardware is in hand.

I've read that 5g coolers will not support the grain bills I'm interested in, and I can convert a keg with all stainless for cheaper than a 10g.