Better Bottle vs water cooler

I know this topic has already been discussed, but it seems like most of them are several years old. I think up until 2007-2008 water coolers were primarily #7 plastic, which contains BPA and is unsuitable for anything food related.

Well I looked at the water coolers at walmart and it was made of #1 plastic and apparently all of them have made the switch.

So what I'm wondering is why anyone is using $20 better bottles when you can get $10 water coolers that are essentially the same thing?

irchowi said:

I know this topic has already been discussed, but it seems like most of them are several years old. I think up until 2007-2008 water coolers were primarily #7 plastic, which contains BPA and is unsuitable for anything food related.

Well I looked at the water coolers at walmart and it was made of #1 plastic and apparently all of them have made the switch.

So what I'm wondering is why anyone is using $20 better bottles when you can get $10 water coolers that are essentially the same thing?

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The problem most of us have with plastic bottles is there permeability.

As long as you don't store/age long term, you'll be fine.

Feel free to compare, but I'm willing to bet the better bottle is a bit thicker.

Nowadays a lot of the waterbottles are actually made by the Better Bottle Company. So it's very possible that that very cheap water bottle is just one in disguise. People have had them turn up even in lots delivered and sold at homebrew shops.Every now and then someone will buy one that says "for water only" even though it was labeled Better Bottle, and boxed up. When they contacted the BB company, they admit that they have to have that stamped on the culligan ones, but that they are the same bottles, and sometimes someone screws up in the warehouse and swaps the orders.

You asked why more people aren't....for one the the switch over to <1> and <2> commercial bottles has been slow for retailers, largely driven by BPA recalls. We're always on the lookout, and post here quite often when retailers have made the switch. But even withing the same big box retailer, like Home Depot, Meijer, or Walmart the swtichovers have been gradual and regional. As it happens more, more people will be doing so.

Secondly there's still that old "Oxygen Permeability" belief that when you actually look into it, the differences tend to be marginal, and really more as a result of a fear based glass carboy industry trying to sell overpriced and dangerous glass carboys, rather than there being much true danger in using them...But old minds are like a steal trap....it's hard to get through to people....

If you find them, more power to you,

I was at one of my local walmarts last night, and took a look at which water jugs they have. They have listed "Primplastic INC" on them and are <3> (or at least that's what it looks like). Can't say I ever saw 3's before, so I didn't get any. I haven't checked any home depots or lowes though, as that's next on the list.

Here in MD they are selling 1s at the grocery store. I haven't checked Walmart yet, but I'm hoping that they're there as well.

What about the nooks and crannies that those water bottles can have? Especially the ones with built in handles. From a sanitation point of view does that become an issue? I use glass carboys now, but wouldn't be opposed to using plastic if these sorts of things can be explained?

WilliamSlayer said:

What about the nooks and crannies that those water bottles can have? Especially the ones with built in handles. From a sanitation point of view does that become an issue? I use glass carboys now, but wouldn't be opposed to using plastic if these sorts of things can be explained?

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That's why we use oxygen based cleansers like oxyclean and hot water soaks to break everything up and clean it.

And starsan with it's foam that we tell people not to fear to sanitize. What do you think the purpose of the foam i starsan (and the dairy sanitizer version of iodophor I get from tsc which foams as well) is for? to reach into every nook and cranny to SANITIZE things.

Never had a problem with the ones I used...

WilliamSlayer said:

What about the nooks and crannies that those water bottles can have? Especially the ones with built in handles. From a sanitation point of view does that become an issue? I use glass carboys now, but wouldn't be opposed to using plastic if these sorts of things can be explained?

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If you clean it with StarSan, every crack and crevice will be sanitized......

dstranger99 said:

If you clean it with StarSan, every crack and crevice will be sanitized......

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Great minds think alike and at the same time.

I just picked up a 6 gallon better-bottle today at a hardware store in state college,( i know), any way, the owner sold it to me for 17$ and said that it has been sitting on his shelf for years, hell he gave me a free airlock just for getting it off the shelf. He told me that he refuses to buy them because nobody wants them. then he turns around and says that he sells skids of glass corbouys because no one trusts the plastic,hell I'll take that deal all day

Yeah I had originally planned on buying glass but wasn't expecting the huge price tag: almost $50 each. The clerk helping me recommended plastic ones, and actually I think the ones they have that I bought isn't better bottle branded, looks pretty generic. At first I was concerned with long term exposure to plastic, degradation over time, etc. but he convinced me otherwise.

One of the reasons I got it was because at $20, it's less than half the cost of a glass carboy, but I got home and still felt ripped off because I thought that this was almost exactly like a water cooler and I had no idea what the difference was. Turns out there is no difference

And about the handle in a water cooler, the one that I mentioned I saw at walmart did have a handle and I thought that it wouldn't be too good. I mean any kind of cleaning solution would be able to get in there but it wouldn't be possible to physically scrub the area, although I'm not sure if that's even needed. Plus #1 plastic is supposed to scratch easily so maybe it's better to just soak it in a solution and leave it alone.

I have currently in use 2 water cooler bottles, a 3-gallon and a 5 gallon. No problems. I had 2 others, but laziness made them dirty and icky. For $1.97 at Hy-Vee I could care less and threw them away. Most people will say don't age in them, I don't even believe that. I've read most of the stuff over the problems of using type 1 and 2 vs type 7 and all the oxygen permeation. Most just seems "Hypothetical" nonsense.

irchowi said:

...So what I'm wondering is why anyone is using $20 better bottles when you can get $10 water coolers that are essentially the same thing?

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The manufacture process is different for Better Bottles.

Part of resistance to oxygen permeability is from the composition/material and part is from the material's structure as manufactured ... and part, significantly, from the closure. Better Bottle actually uses a specific high pressure blowing/molding process that was designed to maximize the carboys resistance to oxygen permeability better than that of other PETE carboys (the ones from Absopure for example).

Also, the closure from Better Bottle is significantly better than others.

Common silicone or PVC stoppers are really not suitable for long term storage and are notorious for allowing in oxygen long term. As well, any closure using liquid over the long haul will gradually leach oxygen thru the liquid in the airlock.

The best against oxygen infiltration are something like the closure products from Better Bottles. Other things that work well are natural rubber stoppers or carboy-caps ... although with natural rubber, very old ones will eventually dry out.
The old, stinky black or red neoprene stoppers are also decent against oxygen infiltration ... it just the odor potentially getting into your product that seems to be a downside.

The better bottle system is really the hot ticket for bulk, long-term storage in a plastic carboy.

If you are still unable to come to a decision on this, check out the better bottle web site

I would hazard a guess that Better Bottle may make different "levels" of bottles---water bottle vs fermentation....when you visit their website they call them "Better Bottle fermentation carboys". I know many who use the standard water bottles for racking, but never for storage. I know many of the "water bottles" have a pebbled feel to their interior, which makes cleaning a PITA.
Good thread here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/secondary-fermenting-water-jug-79067/

Very informative. Thanks guys!

i like glass better, i think it does a better job at clearing wine then plastic does but thats just my belief and im not trying to prove it correct.

im with honda i like glass,but also thats all i use, so i wouldnt know the difference without trying it would be almost like saying i like elderberry wine better than blackberry without trying blackberry like revvy said old minds are like a steel trap doesnt want change if it works stay with it, thats old school as most of us are

ejr said:

im with honda i like glass,but also thats all i use, so i wouldnt know the difference without trying it would be almost like saying i like elderberry wine better than blackberry without trying blackberry like revvy said old minds are like a steel trap doesnt want change if it works stay with it, thats old school as most of us are

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Wow, that is one long, run-on sentence! But yes, your point is taken