Red IPA Attempt

Hey guys,
Put together a Red IPA mainly using the BeerSmith SRM gauge on the side. This is for a 2.5 gallon batch. Please let me know what you think of the malt profile. I am curious to know if these malts will taste good together.

6 lbs 3 oz - Maris Otter
14 oz - Caramel 60
7 oz - Munich
7 oz - Vienna
4 oz - Melanoiden (to obtain the red)

I know it is hearty and flavorful malts that are in this Red. As I mentioned, this is my first attempt at putting together a Red IPA.

As for hops and their schedules, that is still up in the air. I currently am sitting on a large variety of hops. Have a new few hops that I am looking to experiment with, but here is a list of what I have: Legacy, Columbus, Calypso, Centennial, Belma, Citra, Magnum, Czech Saaz, Fuggle, Williamette, Greater Hall., Cascade, and Amarillo.

I was personally thinking some Cascade for bittering, Amarillo for flavor, and a citra whole leaf for dry hopping (or maybe Legacy to try out the new hop).

That's too much crystal, and too much melanoidin, in my opinion.

For a more "red" color, you could use some carared instead of the crystal 60L (in the amount of no more than 8 ounces, and that is pushing it) and an ounce of roasted barley for color. Why the 7 ounces of both Vienna and Munich? It's ok, but it's such a small amount I"d probably juse double of of them, or go with a whole pound of one of them. Munich gives an "orange-y" hue, so that might be the one to go with if you want red.

Why Marris Otter and not a Pale Malt?

I made a 5 gallon batch of Red Ale that had the following:

7.4 lb Pale Ale
8oz CaraMunich
8oz Crystal 80L
8oz Crystal 120L
2.08oz Barley (Roasted)

Turned out very nice with a deep dark red color.

Yooper, thanks for the input.

So the adjusted recipe with your advice is looking like so:
6lbs 3 oz - MO
1lb - Vienna
8oz - Carared
3oz - Melanoiden

The BeerSmith SRM picture is showing it Pale Ale looking color, it doesn't look red.

msh227 - Why Marris Otter and not a Pale Malt?

Just decided to try something new, never made an IPA with MO, but I am open to suggestions on why not to use it. Don't want to waste and expensive malt.

Sounds good, see how it turns out. I was just curious what your thinking was, experimenting is the best part of brewing.

Chris7687 said:

I was personally thinking some Cascade for bittering, Amarillo for flavor, and a citra whole leaf for dry hopping (or maybe Legacy to try out the new hop).

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I'm just a n00b and not really familiar with different hop combinations, but this looks good to me.

the grain bill looks very similar to mine for my AIPA; I have never used MO (am dying to), used regular 2-row + munich + vienna, but no crystal at all (advice from LHBS owner, sound reasoning and I'm happy with how it tasted when I bottled this past saturday)

never used melanoidin either.

I put your grain bill into Beersmith and LIKE the color (I got 15.9, is that what you got?), but I LOVE the way it looks at 14.8.

substitute 60L crystal for 11 oz of 20L and add 4oz of 120L.

see how that grabs you

or, better advice... listen to the advice of the people I take advice from

GrogNerd - Thanks for the advice.

I think I am going with the combination of the advices.

6 lbs - MO
12 oz - Vienna
8 oz - Carared
5 oz - Melanoiden
4.8 oz - Caramel 120

Est. OG - 1.091
SRM - 14.1

Hops:
1 oz Columbus (12.0 AA) @ 70.2 IBUS
0.5 oz Amarillo (8.5 AA) @ 19 IBUS
0.25 Cascade (5.5 AA) @ 1.6 IBUS
Total IBUS: 90.8.... Did I mention this was an Imperial Red IPA!!

Going to make the brew this week, bottle in January, and give a report towards the end of January.

Chris7687 said:

msh227 - Why Marris Otter and not a Pale Malt?

Just decided to try something new, never made an IPA with MO, but I am open to suggestions on why not to use it. Don't want to waste and expensive malt.

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I love MO as a base malt replacing 2-row. I use it almost entirely, or sometimes 75/25 MO/Pale 2-row.

I also have a red Hopped Ale under my recipes that came out delicious IMO. Although that may be a little biased

I liked that hop schedule, I wish I had a friend that would stand there and do a hop schedule like that for me! Maybe I can find a little beer gnome to do this for me.

Are you going to use some flame out hops or dry hop? At 90 IBU I would probably throw in a couple ounces toward the last ten minutes of the boil and couple oz dry hop, but then I do love hoppy beers!

Odin - I might up the 5 minute addition to 0.5 ounce of Cascade. Still debating on what to dry hop with, probably will be whatever I have on hand and open at the time. This is a 2.5 gallon recipe, so not trying to put to many hops into the batch! 90 IBU's is a pretty hefty IPA as it is. Love my hoppy beers too!

I think MO malt is a waste on a hoppy IPA especially with those speciality malts in there.

IMO you need a lot more late hops. A quarter of an ounce of hops will disappear in 90 IBU. Assuming the Amarillo is a 20 minute flavor addition and the Cascade is a 5 minute addition as you mentioned, I would do an ounce of each, then cut down the Columbus as needed to hit your target IBU. Dry hop with all three, like a half ounce each.

Wouldn't 1.5 ounces in dry hopping be pretty potent? I usually dry hop with only a ounce for 5 gallons.

Also, I know this is a side note thing but does anyone get a nasty haze to their beer after dry hopping with pellets? I have clear beers after fermentation, but the last two pales I dry hopped with have a very thick (wheat looking) haze to them now.

Chris7687 said:

GrogNerd - Thanks for the advice.

I think I am going with the combination of the advices.

6 lbs - MO
12 oz - Vienna
8 oz - Carared
5 oz - Melanoiden
4.8 oz - Caramel 120

Est. OG - 1.091
SRM - 14.1

Hops:
1 oz Columbus (12.0 AA) @ 70.2 IBUS
0.5 oz Amarillo (8.5 AA) @ 19 IBUS
0.25 Cascade (5.5 AA) @ 1.6 IBUS
Total IBUS: 90.8.... Did I mention this was an Imperial Red IPA!!

Going to make the brew this week, bottle in January, and give a report towards the end of January.

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That's an awful lot of melanoiden malt. It's "intensely malty"- a ramped up Munich malt, and I would seriously consider leaving it out. If you really want intense malt aroma, you could use a bit, but I only use about 4 ounces in a 5 gallon batch in beers I want a huge malty aroma in.

As far as hopping, I'd cut the bittering hops and amp up the late hops.

Like this:
.35 ounce bittering (or to 40-50 IBUs with this addition)
.5 ounce 15 minute
.5 ounce 10 minute
.5 ounce 5 minute
.5 ounce flame out
Dryhop with 1 ounce.

Chris7687 said:

Wouldn't 1.5 ounces in dry hopping be pretty potent? I usually dry hop with only a ounce for 5 gallons.

Also, I know this is a side note thing but does anyone get a nasty haze to their beer after dry hopping with pellets? I have clear beers after fermentation, but the last two pales I dry hopped with have a very thick (wheat looking) haze to them now.

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Its an IPA isn't it? Unless you are going for english style? I have used 2 oz in 5 gallons before. basically because i had them left over. it came out good. All depends on what you are looking for.

Definitely don't want this to be a malty IPA. Already messed up on the last IPA I made and it was way to malty and not enjoyable. I want to get a decent red color, but still remain in the BJCP IIPA style (8-15 SRM and no maltiness or sweetness!!). See what I have now.

6.5 pounds of Maris Otter
12 oz Vienna
8 oz Carared
1.5 oz Crystal 120L
1.5 oz Chocolate Malt

.75oz Colombus @ 60 mins (50.5 IBU)
.25oz Colombus @ 50 mins (16.0 IBU)
.25 Amarillo @ 15 mins (5.9 IBU)
.25 Amarillo @ 10 mins (4.3 IBU)
.25 Cascade @ 5 mins (1.5 IBU)
.25 Cascade @ 0 mins (1.5 IBU)

Dry hop with an ounce. Cascade or Amarillo? Debating...

Also, open to yeast recommendations. I don't want anything fruity. Was just thinking US-05.

Also, how do you guys copy you BeerSmith recipes to the forum? Typing it out manually is a PIA!!

Chris7687 said:

Also, how do you guys copy you BeerSmith recipes to the forum? Typing it out manually is a PIA!!

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from the list of recipes, preview window, select "plain text" and cut-n-paste here. i usually paste it into a text file first, then delete the "type" (I think the forum members can figure out it's a grain or hop or yeast) and #

you can also "save" to an html file, if you want to add it to a webpage/blog, like I do here on my brewdays

Chris7687 said:

Definitely don't want this to be a malty IPA. Already messed up on the last IPA I made and it was way to malty and not enjoyable. I want to get a decent red color, but still remain in the BJCP IIPA style (8-15 SRM and no maltiness or sweetness!!). See what I have now.

6.5 pounds of Maris Otter
12 oz Vienna
8 oz Carared
1.5 oz Crystal 120L
1.5 oz Chocolate Malt

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If you don't want to taste the malt I would not use Crystal or Chocolate malt. My black IPA has nothing but Carafa III and pale malt in it but I also put in 8 oz of C-80 and 2 oz of chocolate malt (in 5 gal) and it is still too malty/chocolate/sweet for an IPA! I still like it but it's amazing how malty it tastes for being 87 ibus.

If you retain the chocolate and crystal at least shoot to mash the grain at 149F to keep more fermentable sugars in the wort. My black IPA mash was about 154F which is part of why mine is too malty/sweet.

Well ****!!! How do I get the red without the strong malt presence? I'm trying to make something similar to Tocobaga Red by Cigar City.

Can I up the CaraRed without bringing to much malt taste to the recipe? Maybe mash at a lower temp, 149ish?

Chris7687 said:

Well ****!!! How do I get the red without the strong malt presence? I'm trying to make something similar to Tocobaga Red by Cigar City.

Can I up the CaraRed without bringing to much malt taste to the recipe? Maybe mash at a lower temp, 149ish?

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What about Carafa I to darken the color without adding malt sweetness? I'm not sure how much CaraRed you can use but every red ale I've ever tasted was pretty malty if it was actually red in color. I understand the novelty of making a "red ipa" but black ipa's are much easier to achieve without too much malty taste. Honestly though, I don't mind a bit of malt up front in a dark IPA...it adds character to the style. Porter taste up front and then IPA bitterness and aroma take over at the finish. I love this style!

Yea I understand there is going to be some give and take with getting the color out that I want. I just don't want the pallate to pay to much attention to the malt, as I do to the bitterness flavors and hoppy aroma. Luckily, I live by CCB so I have an infinite supply of Tocobaga Red I can do side-by-side comparisons of.

Chris7687 said:

Yea I understand there is going to be some give and take with getting the color out that I want. I just don't want the pallate to pay to much attention to the malt, as I do to the bitterness flavors and hoppy aroma. Luckily, I live by CCB so I have an infinite supply of Tocobaga Red I can do side-by-side comparisons of.

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Yea. Definitely mash on the low side. Sweetness really takes away from an IPA in my opinion.

I did a red IPA with about 4% each carared/caraaroma (basically C20/C120) and I liked how it turned out. I didn't find it too overly sweet or malty, but Im no registered judge or anything

Id dry hop a half ounce each of colombus/cascade/amarillo. I do 2-3 oz per 6 gallon batch. I also enjoy the multiple hops in combo and the way they kind of layer together

Went with 4 oz of Each for CaraRed, Caramel 40, and Caramel 120. Going to mash around 150-152. I am going to make it this weekend on the stove top. I will let you all know how it turns out come the New Year! Thanks for the insight.

Chris7687 said:

Went with 4 oz of Each for CaraRed, Caramel 40, and Caramel 120. Going to mash around 150-152. I am going to make it this weekend on the stove top. I will let you all know how it turns out come the New Year! Thanks for the insight.

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Please take a picture of the hydrometer sample before you pitch the yeast. I'm curious how the color will come out before and after fermentation. This recipe interests me. :rockin:

can name it

IRA IPA

Jayhem said:

Please take a picture of the hydrometer sample before you pitch the yeast. I'm curious how the color will come out before and after fermentation. This recipe interests me. :rockin:

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Will do. I am going to use a full pack of rehydrated US-05 for the 2.5 gallon batch.

Adding just a touch of roasted barley and perhaps special B (like 2% total) will give it a nice, red glow.

Chris7687 said:

Will do. I am going to use a full pack of rehydrated US-05 for the 2.5 gallon batch.

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FWIW i do 2.5 gal batches with US 05, pitched 8g non rehydrated yeast on my recent 1.075 og ipa, and its fermenting fine, so that may be over pitching.

Thanks for the tip nicklepickles. I checked the Mrmalty.com calculator and you are correct. I am only going to use half a pack. Ended up making a wheat today on the stove top, saving the IPA and it's bigger grain bill for the second attempt batch. So far so good, except my stove isn;t strong enough to bring 3.8 gallons of water to a boil. Bummer....

Hey guys, so I secondaried and cold crashed the beer last week. Home sick today and went to bottle it. Pulled it out of the fridge and have this seperation going on. I've had it happen in other beers I've dry hopped with and for some reason it never settles all the way through!! I am not sure what is causing this!! Anyone else ever have this problem?



The beer isn't crystal clear like it was before I dry hopped. Could it be from a particular hop I am using is really oily?

give it time... the hops will settle out

That's not a problem. It's deliciousness.

So it is just hop oil from dry hopping? How much time? I already gave it a week in the fridge.

Chris7687 said:

So it is just hop oil from dry hopping? How much time? I already gave it a week in the fridge.

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Yep. It will eventually clear along with some loss of the hop flavor and aroma. Bottle or keg. Sounds like its time.

what temp was your fridge at? i cold crashed in my fridge last week and had to turn it down a bit. was sitting just below 40 which is no good for holding food for any long period of time anyway. 35 is good to crash at.

Not sure. I just crank it to the lowest it can go. I don't hold any food in there, just a few mason jars of washed yeast.

Chris7687 said:

Well ****!!! How do I get the red without the strong malt presence? I'm trying to make something similar to Tocobaga Red by Cigar City.

Can I up the CaraRed without bringing to much malt taste to the recipe? Maybe mash at a lower temp, 149ish?

Click to expand...

Here is my final revised recipe for a Tocobaga clone. I tried it yesterday and it tastes awesome! Not only does it taste pretty close to Tocabaga, I would dare to say it is better than the real thing. Thanks for all of the tips. Enjoy!


Brewing Steps: Tony's Toke -A- Bong Ale
American IPA
Type: All Grain Date: 12/13/2012
Batch Size (fermenter): 10.00 gal Brewer: Tony
Boil Size: 12.05 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Tony's Setup - Keggles and Cooler (10 Gal/37.8 L) - All Grain
Final Bottling Volume: 10.08 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Prepare for Brewing

Create a yeast starter with 3.15 l of wort

Clean and Prepare Brewing Equipment
Total Water Needed: 15.56 gal
Water Prep
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2.00 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -

Mash or Steep Grains

Mash Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
22 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 75.2 %
3 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3 10.3 %
2 lbs Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.8 %
2 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 5 6.8 %
4.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 6 0.9 %

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 36.56 qt of water at 163.7 F 152.0 F 60 min

Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.39gal, 6.03gal) of 168.0 F water

Boil Wort

Add water to achieve boil volume of 12.05 gal
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.064 SG
Boil Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [10.40 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 16.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [13.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 21.5 IBUs
2.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 9 -
1.00 oz Cascade [6.20 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 4.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Vanguard [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 11 4.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Willamette [4.70 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 12 3.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 13 5.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [13.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 14 7.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 15 2.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Pacifica [5.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 16 1.7 IBUs

Steeped Hops
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [6.20 %] - Aroma Steep 20.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [10.40 %] - Aroma Steep 20.0 min Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [13.50 %] - Aroma Steep 20.0 min Hop 19 0.0 IBUs

Estimated Post Boil Vol: 10.92 gal and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.073 SG
Cool and Prepare Fermentation

Cool wort to fermentation temperature
Transfer wort to fermenter
Add water to achieve final volume of 10.00 gal
Fermentation Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.0 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) [124.21 ml] Yeast 20 -

Measure Actual Original Gravity _______ (Target: 1.073 SG)
Measure Actual Batch Volume _______ (Target: 10.00 gal)
Fermentation
12/13/2012 - Primary Fermentation (4.00 days at 67.0 F ending at 67.0 F)
12/17/2012 - Secondary Fermentation (10.00 days at 67.0 F ending at 67.0 F)

Dry Hop and Prepare for Bottling/Kegging
Dry Hop/Bottling Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 21 0.0 IBUs

Measure Final Gravity: _________ (Estimate: 1.020 SG)
Date Bottled/Kegged: 12/27/2012 - Carbonation: Keg with 12.54 PSI
Age beer for 30.00 days at 65.0 F
1/26/2013 - Drink and enjoy!
Notes

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