Brew Stand - mitered joints or regular butt joints?

Woulds mitered joints for the top add to the strength of my brew stand (like in the first picture below)? I see a lot of people just use butt joints (either like in the 2nd or 3rd picture below), but it seems to me that would put all of the stress/weight of the kettles onto the weld... as a first time welder, i'm a little bit concerned about the strength of my welds... not sure if this would make a difference.

The 45 degree cuts would be pretty difficult to make accurately with my angle grinder though...

Only design #2 is fully dependent on your welds, the other two are not. So use #1 or #3, whichever is easier for you (sounds like #3).

I've been welding for about 12 years now and I always try to design so that the construction, loads and stress are dependent on the materials used instead of welds. The other thing I'm a big fan is gussets and doublers. If you have any doubt about your welds, weld in a gusset at the 90 degree intersection; it vastly increases your weld area and stiffness of the joint.

BTW, what software did you use to make those drawings, those are cool!


Good luck.

Excellent question....Miters are more aesthetic....but you introduce a lot of error if your cuts aren't accurate. Also, clamping everything together gets trickier.

It bears repeating that brewing is NOT a very heavy duty application, at least not with 15 gallon kettles. That's not to say you can get away with crappy welds, but you can get away with certain structural designs that might fail at a higher weight.

Option number 3 is best IMHO...I am not a weldor by any stretch of the imagination, but pretty handy nonetheless. Keep in mind that you can add telescoping attachments such as an extendable table or removable control panel by using the open tubing.

I'm no welder, but in carpentry miters aren't really stronger than butt joints. Miter joints give a bit more joint/glue area (in the case of welding bead length), but it makes little difference.

As ScubaSteve said, miters are about aesthetics.

I did mine just like picture 3 and welded on a cap on all my open ends, including (and most important) on the stubs that hold the kettle. That way no flames lick into the open stubs.

I'd do option #3 and then weld some gusset plates under the "unsupported" tubes, or if you dont want to cut gusset plates you could use some short lengths of the same tube welded to the uprights to give some bearing to the top frame pieces.

I never welded before making my stand. I did mitered joints on my stand. It was difficult, here are some things I learned.

- its hard to get a good 45 degree cut with an abrasive cutoff saw, and be able to get a square corner line up.
- its very hard to stay square without corner clamps.
- takes a lot more grinding and weld to fill the gaps.
- easy to burn through the thin ends of a 45 joint.

I would strongly suggest not attempting 45 degree cuts with only an angle grinder! As said above the outside of the miter joints would be very difficult to not burn through as a first time welder. I would go with number 3 (as I did on my stand) and make some caps for the ends.

I actually went a step further here, which would be more feasible than miter ends with just an angle grinder and followed this stand build idea with "cut out" ends.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-new-brew-system-brutus-10-some-nice-modifications-172927/
I felt this added another layer of structural dependency, or at least increased the weld areas significantly.

FTG-05 said:

If you have any doubt about your welds, weld in a gusset at the 90 degree intersection; it vastly increases your weld area and stiffness of the joint.

BTW, what software did you use to make those drawings, those are cool!

Click to expand...

So for a gusset I would just cut a short piece of my tube steel at 45degrees at each end and use it to support the corner (like in the attached drawing?)

I used SketchUp free for this (firs time, was surprisingly easy to learn!)

Coldies said:

I did mine just like picture 3 and welded on a cap on all my open ends, including (and most important) on the stubs that hold the kettle. That way no flames lick into the open stubs.

Click to expand...

What is the concern with flames going into the open end of the tube?


Thank you everybody for the good feedback, based on this I think I will go with option 3 and if I feel there is some weakness I will add gussets.

You could use your tube like you show for a gusset, but if you can cut good 45* angles for that, why not just miter it? You can use a piece of plate cut to 45* which may be easier, or even just put a section of square tube in the corner to give yourself more weld area.

From what I can tell though, the long pieces are supported by the vertical tube (legs) and will support the majority of the kettle weight. The short pieces on either end don't appear as though they'll have much weight on them. They are there to keep the stand from collapsing in on itself or pulling apart and to make things look more balanced but I'd wager you could build the stand just fine without any gussets, unless you plan to start doing larger scale brewing, or take your brew rig off roading...

Yeah - I agree with BadNews... sit the longer horizontal tubes on top of the vertical tubes. The shorter tubes will basically only act with lateral force (much like a house truss), keeping unit together side to side. The vertical tubes will support the weight of the long sides which carry the weight of the kettles...

bduane said:

So for a gusset I would just cut a short piece of my tube steel at 45degrees at each end and use it to support the corner (like in the attached drawing?)

I used SketchUp free for this (firs time, was surprisingly easy to learn!)

What is the concern with flames going into the open end of the tube?

Thank you everybody for the good feedback, based on this I think I will go with option 3 and if I feel there is some weakness I will add gussets.

Click to expand...

That's a good example. It is bigger than it needs to be and, as others have said, it probably isn't going to be necessary at all. Once you get the basic structure designed and built, it's easy to see if it needs more beefing up; my bet it won't.

I'll try that Sketchup, thanks!

Good luck.

I pretty much agree with what's already been said. Make the longitudinal bars rest on top of the vertical ones, and then the short bars will only provide lateral support, and need to provide very little support for the kegs. Also butt joints are much easier to cut and fit, and so ultimately to weld.

That said though, you're welding steel bars to steel bars. That design should support a car (not including the wheels of course), let alone a keggle. Any but the worst weld should stand up to you hitting it with a sledge.

Cromwell said:

That said though, you're welding steel bars to steel bars. That design should support a car (not including the wheels of course), let alone a keggle. Any but the worst weld should stand up to you hitting it with a sledge.

Click to expand...

Thanks, that is very reassuring!

I've seen a number of different options for kettle supports. Many of them require cutting 45's, which i'd like to avoid. I'd also like to avoid obstructing the burner as much as possible.

What do yo think about using 14 guage 1.5" flat bar like in this example here, would there be any concern with strength? Difficulty welding?

If you're confident you can get everything true and plumb that design should work fine. I think it's harder to level a mostly 2 dimensional piece than a 3 dimensional piece, but easier to cut and weld.

That last sketchup design looks good.

BTW, I saw this old thread this afternoon and thought of this thread. This is a design made out of galvanized angle iron, no welding. Far less strength than your square tube design, yet, the OP of this weldless design says it's very strong. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/weldless-brew-stand-174224/

And here's another weldless design for your consideration: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-weldless-build-using-strut-363128/

Bottom line: Do due diligence, but don't over think it. Look at the burner design for the much-used Bayou Classic and it's relatively thin angle iron construction. Your design should be far stronger that that as shown here thus far.

I'll think you'll be fine, not because of your welding skills (which we haven't seen any pics of yet - hint hint!) but because you're asking the right questions - at the right time.

Good luck!

BadNewsBrewery said:

If you're confident you can get everything true and plumb that design should work fine. I think it's harder to level a mostly 2 dimensional piece than a 3 dimensional piece, but easier to cut and weld.

Click to expand...

I'm thinking I could just tack these on with the top upside down against a flat surface so that the flat surface below would ensure everything is flush where it counts (if the flat bar is slightly angled one way or another I don't think it'd matter as long as the top is flush)

FTG-05 said:

That last sketchup design looks good.

BTW, I saw this old thread this afternoon and thought of this thread. This is a design made out of galvanized angle iron, no welding. Far less strength than your square tube design, yet, the OP of this weldless design says it's very strong. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/weldless-brew-stand-174224/

And here's another weldless design for your consideration: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-weldless-build-using-strut-363128/

Bottom line: Do due diligence, but don't over think it. Look at the burner design for the much-used Bayou Classic and it's relatively thin angle iron construction. Your design should be far stronger that that as shown here thus far.

I'll think you'll be fine, not because of your welding skills (which we haven't seen any pics of yet - hint hint!) but because you're asking the right questions - at the right time.

Good luck!

Click to expand...

I will definitely post pictures of my progress, perhaps I'll start a build thread when I do. Right now it is just 9, 6' lengths of tube steel on my garage floor. I found somebody that is willing to cut it for me so I don't have to muck around with the angle grinder for so many cuts. My welding isn't pretty with only a few hours of practice under my belt, but with a liberal amount of grinding I think I can make it look good!

Nevermind the gussets. While being very useful structurally, you're essentially in the same place as when using mitre joints. Get some angle iron and cut it into pieces that are as long as your square tube is wide. Then tack that section angle into the 90's under the table. Make sense? Sort of a reinforcement bracket....but only on the underside of the joint, where people are less likely to see.

But SERIOUSLY....we are NOT dealing with tons here....everything is less than 200 lbs. Even lumber is capable of easily supporting these weights.