No signs of fermentation after 5 days

Me and my girlfriend attempted our first brew this last week and after 5 days there is no signs of fermentation. I think I messed up when I tried to re-hydrate the yeast by A) putting it in water that was too hot and B) by re-hydrating it too early (over an hour before we pitched it). After not seeing an evidence of fermentation in the airlock I cracked the lid of the bucket yesterday and nothing is going on. We are also seeing a drop in the water level of our three piece airlock which is a separate issue but has us both confused. The bucket is also a little cold (63-64 F) and we are planning to move it to a warmer place in the house.

Our plan is to buy some more yeast and re-pitch. The soonest I can do this is tomorrow as our local home brew shop was closed Monday for the holiday and is closed today as their normal day off. Is this the proper course of action?

What was your Original Gravity and the Gravity reading on your Hydrometer when you cracked the lid?

that airlock means nothing, it's a co2 vent. only gravity readings can give you 'visible signs of fermentation'.






**summoning revvy**

Not to pile on, but I echo the above. Check your gravity to see if anything is happening. If not, then re pitch and see what happens.

the7yearplan said:

Me and my girlfriend attempted our first brew this last week and after 5 days there is no signs of fermentation. I think I messed up when I tried to re-hydrate the yeast by A) putting it in water that was too hot and B) by re-hydrating it too early (over an hour before we pitched it). After not seeing an evidence of fermentation in the airlock I cracked the lid of the bucket yesterday and nothing is going on. We are also seeing a drop in the water level of our three piece airlock which is a separate issue but has us both confused. The bucket is also a little cold (63-64 F) and we are planning to move it to a warmer place in the house.

Our plan is to buy some more yeast and re-pitch. The soonest I can do this is tomorrow as our local home brew shop was closed Monday for the holiday and is closed today as their normal day off. Is this the proper course of action?

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What is the yeast strain? Most yeasts are very tolerant in the lower 60s

Rehydrating too warm could kill the yeast but an hour before pitching is perfectly acceptable.

Were there other signs of fermentation (krausen ring around the inside of the bucket or a krausen layer atop the liquid)?

An airlock CAN tell you if fermentation is happening. The absence of airlock activity does not necessarily mean fermentation is not happening.

If you don't see the physical evidence of fermentation krausen ring or layer, repitch.

What's your current gravity? That's really the ONLY sign you can go by.

Hugh_Jass said:

What is the yeast strain? Most yeasts are very tolerant in the lower 60s

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I'll second that - usually low 60's ambient is perfect. Keep in mind the yeast generate heat when they ferment, so your actual wort temp can be 5-10 degrees higher. Hot fermentations don't taste too good, I'd err on the side of cooler.

Wow thanks for all the responses everyone.

I'll take a hydrometer reading tonight and see if it has changed from the original of 1.050. There is no krausen layer or ring inside of the bucket but I'll confirm fermentation with the hydrometer and if nothing is going on I'll re-pitch.

The yeast strain is Nottingham Ale Yeast if that makes a difference.

the7yearplan said:

Wow thanks for all the responses everyone.

I'll take a hydrometer reading tonight and see if it has changed from the original of 1.050. There is no krausen layer or ring inside of the bucket but I'll confirm fermentation with the hydrometer and if nothing is going on I'll re-pitch.

The yeast strain is Nottingham Ale Yeast if that makes a difference.

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If you're using Nottingham, it is very happy at 57-62 degrees so no need to warm it up!

Check the Sg and see where you're at. If there isn't any change for some reason, you can add repitch.

To clear up the airlock issue, the water will drop as the piece in the center is pushed up and out of the water by pressure in the fermenter.

yep, barometric pressure is visible in airlocks - if the temperature/pressure in the fermenter is different than ambient, you'll see it in an airlock.

What was the temp of your rehydration?
Temperatures are important at EVERY step of beer making. If the rehydrate water was above 110-115, you killed the yeast.

Ahh, but we've all made mistakes. Many of them are recoverable. In your case the wort temp is good, you can probably just re-pitch, then leave it be at that temp for 4 weeks...

welcome to brewing and HBT!

Checked the hydrometer, no change in Sg so I'm going to re-pitch today after I buy new yeast. Question, should I re-aerate when I pitch the yeast?

the7yearplan said:

Checked the hydrometer, no change in Sg so I'm going to re-pitch today after I buy new yeast. Question, should I re-aerate when I pitch the yeast?

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i would. if you're using a liquid yeast, make a starter and pitch at high krausen so you're pitching active yeast. if using dry, just rehydrate per instruction and pitch.

good luck

I know we have already covered "don't go by the airlock", but I can also say that looking at the beer doesn't necessarily work. I just had a Russian Imperial Stout ferment completely out in 6 days. There was zero airlock activity and maybe a few millimeters of krausen.

When in doubt, always use your hydrometer.

Also, I would be worried about re-aerating it. I'm not 100% sure why, it's just my $0.02.

No need to aerate if you're using dry yeast. I also never rehydrate my dry yeast.

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I re-pitched and we are getting signs of fermentation in the airlock.

One more question. When I popped the lid to re-pitch there was a white, fuzzy, mold like mass floating in the wort. I scooped it out with a sanitized spoon but is this something we should be worried about?

Without pics we can't tell if it is mold or not.. More then Likly it's yeast boats I always leave them in and it will drop. It's just yeast that have clumped together, it
Usually happens when using dry yeast.

TitanJimi said:

No need to aerate if you're using dry yeast. I also never rehydrate my dry yeast.

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huh? not sure what you're basing that on, but that statement is just not accurate. yeast, whether dry or liquid, needs oxygen during the reproductive phase, thus the need to aerate ANY wort before pitching.

the7yearplan said:

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I re-pitched and we are getting signs of fermentation in the airlock.

One more question. When I popped the lid to re-pitch there was a white, fuzzy, mold like mass floating in the wort. I scooped it out with a sanitized spoon but is this something we should be worried about?

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i think it could be yeast rafts left over from your first pitch, but without pics it's hard to say for sure. with unfermented wort sitting that long, it could be mold, so it's good to get it all out of the bucket. did you happen to taste the wort prior to rep itching? cuz if it tasted like wort should, chances are you're good to go.

I knew I should have snapped a pic before I tossed it! I was thinking it was dead yeast too but thought I would ask here. I did not taste it. I'll do that do tonight. The girlfriend and I have decided to just see this batch through to the end and see what happens.

yeah, when in doubt, ride it out! if you're sanitation regimen is up to par, and that fermenter was sealed, everything should be fine.

the7yearplan said:

I knew I should have snapped a pic before I tossed it! I was thinking it was dead yeast too but thought I would ask here. I did not taste it. I'll do that do tonight. The girlfriend and I have decided to just see this batch through to the end and see what happens.

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Stop messing with it. Keep the lid closed for a week/10 days (really, a few days after the airlock stops) and take another gravity reading. After you've taken the reading taste the sample. All this opening and closing business is inviting infection. There's nothing more you can do, just let it be.

NordeastBrewer77 said:

huh? not sure what you're basing that on, but that statement is just not accurate. yeast, whether dry or liquid, needs oxygen during the reproductive phase, thus the need to aerate ANY wort before pitching.

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Yeast primarily use oxygen to build up sterol and fatty acid reserves. In dry yeast, the manufacture has gone to great lengths to make sure this has already occured before drying the yeast down. This is why we don't make starter from dry yeast- we're essentially undoing all that work (and if we did, aeration would again be necessary) as we're making brand new yeast.

Any additional aeration for dry yeast is mostly unnecessary. Some people say it will actually hasten staling of the beer, but I seriously doubt that claim. I just don't think it will make much difference one way or the other.

NordeastBrewer77 said:

huh? not sure what you're basing that on, but that statement is just not accurate. yeast, whether dry or liquid, needs oxygen during the reproductive phase, thus the need to aerate ANY wort before pitching.

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from Danstar's website:The yeast contains and adequate reservoir of carbohydrates and unsaturated fatty acids to achieve active growth. it is unnecessary to aerate wort.

daksin said:

Yeast primarily use oxygen to build up sterol and fatty acid reserves. In dry yeast, the manufacture has gone to great lengths to make sure this has already occured before drying the yeast down. This is why we don't make starter from dry yeast- we're essentially undoing all that work (and if we did, aeration would again be necessary) as we're making brand new yeast.

Any additional aeration for dry yeast is mostly unnecessary. Some people say it will actually hasten staling of the beer, but I seriously doubt that claim. I just don't think it will make much difference one way or the other.

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eastoak said:

from Danstar's website:The yeast contains and adequate reservoir of carbohydrates and unsaturated fatty acids to achieve active growth. it is unnecessary to aerate wort.

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i'm still planning on thoroughly aerating my wort next (and every) time i use dry. i don't see how carbohydrates and fats can replace the need for oxygen during reproduction. until someone comes along and disproves that yeast use oxygen during the reproductive phase, i wouldn't feel comfortable, nor would i recommend to not aerate wort prior to pitching.

NordeastBrewer77 said:

i'm still planning on thoroughly aerating my wort next (and every) time i use dry. i don't see how carbohydrates and fats can replace the need for oxygen during reproduction. until someone comes along and disproves that yeast use oxygen during the reproductive phase, i wouldn't feel comfortable, nor would i recommend to not aerate wort prior to pitching.

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i don't think i suggested that yeast do not need O2 what i posted was from Danstar who claim that they give enough O2 to the yeast in their production process to reproduce. this explains it a bit better than i can. they don't say not to, neither did i, just that it is not necessary with the initial pitch. subsequent reuse of the yeast certainly does benefit from aeration, i use an O2 cylinder and a stainless wand with a stone on the end.

eastoak said:

i don't think i suggested that yeast do not need O2 what i posted was from Danstar who claim that they give enough O2 to the yeast in their production process to reproduce. this explains it a bit better than i can. they don't say not to, neither did i, just that it is not necessary with the initial pitch. subsequent reuse of the yeast certainly does benefit from aeration, i use an O2 cylinder and a stainless wand with a stone on the end.

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that's kinda what i was getting at. i still say it's a good idea to adequetely aerate. i'm not trying to argue any point, with you or manufacturer recommendation, just saying i prefer to aerate even when pitching dry, it's always worked great for me.

NordeastBrewer77 said:

i'm still planning on thoroughly aerating my wort next (and every) time i use dry. i don't see how carbohydrates and fats can replace the need for oxygen during reproduction. until someone comes along and disproves that yeast use oxygen during the reproductive phase, i wouldn't feel comfortable, nor would i recommend to not aerate wort prior to pitching.

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Starting with the disclaimer that I aerate no matter what....

Fats can replace the need for oxygen, because what yeast use the oxygen for is the production of sterols, which allow them to fortify their cell walls and split. This is why you can actually use olive oil instead of aerating. New Belgium did some work on this. http://brewcrazy.com/hull-olive-oil-thesis.pdf

As for using oxygen in the reproductive phase, I believe the majority of the oxygen is taken up in the lag phase, although I'm not entirely sure. My favorite summary of the fermentation timeline is here: www.whitelabs.com/beer/Yeast_Life_Cycle.pdf, but it doesn't specifically say anything about what percentage of O2 is consumed prior to the growth phase, so who knows.

All THAT having been said, Chris White mentions in Yeast that even though achieving complete fermentation is possible by replacing oxygenation with adding olive oil, there are differences in the production of flavor compounds.

So yeah. I'm going to keep aerating my wort no matter what. Better safe than sorry.

discnjh said:

Starting with the disclaimer that I aerate no matter what....

................

So yeah. I'm going to keep aerating my wort no matter what. Better safe than sorry.

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yeah, i'm in that camp too. no reason not to, and i feel enough of a reason to aerate thoroughly before pitching.

Back on topic -
7yearplan - keep up posted on the progress.


others- there is a yeast forum for those discussions -
jus' sayin'

Checked the gravity yesterday morning and it's at 1.014. Tasted it and it tastes like beer! We decided to let it sit in the primary for another week and then bottle it next weekend then brew our next batch later that day after bottling in complete. Thanks so much for all the help. We learned a valuable lesson, HYDROMETER!

Congrats to you and your g/f.