For those who say an air tight seal on your fermenter is unnecesary, is it ok to peek

I've heard a alot of people say this. Since the beer will produce co2 which is denser than o2, and keep a blanket over the beer.... blah, blah blah (I'll leave the validity of that argument to the threads that already exist). My question is to those who believe this to be true, is it bad to quickly "peak" into your conical or other non-clear fermenter once in a while? On one hand, the o2 should remain over the beer. On the other hand, when I want to peak, the fermentation is mostly over and not much co2 is being produced. I don't want to disturb the blanket and risk oxidizing the beer. I have a 15 gallon fermenter and only 5 gallon batches so I don't think peaking would do much harm. It should have a rather large blanket by the point that I'm peaking.

forget the bs CO2 blanket, it is a farce. most of us hb'ers don't have to worry about oxidation which this is about. just try not to allow light to touch your beer and minimize oxygen contact.

If you have a beer than will be around for more than a few months, especially.

Beer produces CO2 not O2 and no peeking probably won't hurt... but it really won't help either unless you are monitoring gravity levels.

PhelanKA7 said:

Beer produces CO2 not O2 and no peeking probably won't hurt... but it really won't help either unless you are monitoring gravity levels.

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Sorry... typo. I had it right towards the end of the post, just typed incorrectly. It's fixed now.

I peaked a couple times mainly to see if the krausen had fallen and also to take a good whiff to check for off scents like acetaldehyde. I'd hate to be actually causing off flavors by ozidizing it though. Just wanted to check if there was consensus on the topic.

Thanks

Trust me... just wait 14 - 20 days... then peek... with a hydrometer. Trust me.

Gary

be patient, let it do its thing. looking into the bucket will not do anything to help the yeasties, only adds another variable/potential problem. Just set it and forget it for at least 3 to 4 weeks. Then bottle it and wait another 3 weeks. In the meantime, brew another beer maybe 2 weeks into primary. That way once you're drinking this batch, you'll have another coming, and another. Before you know it, you'll forget you had something bottled and the whole patience thing won't be an issue.

Wait a minute stop.

I'm a newbie at beer, but not fluid dynamics.

Gas, cannot enter a still surface because of the surface tension. If simple exposure was enough to oxygenate a body of water, then there would be no such thing as stagnate pools.

In order for a gas to enter a fluid, the surface tension must be overcome. The two main ways this occurs is by making the outside pressure greater than the surface tension, or breaking the tension all together. (Surface agitation)

Remember back to the days of the aquariums? Remember how people had those bubble stones? It's a common misconception that the bubbles oxygenated the water. In fact, the act of the bubbles breaking the surface tension of the water, is what allows oxygen (and other gasses) to enter the water.

There is absolutely no way you are going to oxygenate a liquid, simply by exposing it.

A little bit of neat trivia for you.

The ocean is oxygenated only two ways. Through streams and rivers that enter it, and by the gravitational pull of the moon. The gravitational pull of the moon is what is responsible for creating both the waves themselves, and the tides. The big, air gulping waves are what gives the ocean over 90% of its dissolved o2 supply. If the moon were to be destroyed, then the earth would die. Because the ocean would stagnate and the organism that is responsible for 99% of the worlds oxygen supply would die off......(no, not trees as green peace would have you believe) Cyanobacteria. Or simply, algae.

If you want to sneak a peak at the krausen you can use a flashlight. Shine it through the bucket lid toward the sidewall you should see what's happening. Like "iambeer" suggested above, the "layer of co2" is largely a myth. However, I don't pull the cover off the pail to check gravity since I use a refractometer. All I do is pull the airlock and stick a straw or pipette through the hole to draw a sample.

And if you have saltwater aquariums. The refract is useful for both hobbies!

tackett said:

Wait a minute stop.

I'm a newbie at beer, but not fluid dynamics.

Gas, cannot enter a still surface because of the surface tension. If simple exposure was enough to oxygenate a body of water, then there would be no such thing as stagnate pools.

In order for a gas to enter a fluid, the surface tension must be overcome. The two main ways this occurs is by making the outside pressure greater than the surface tension, or breaking the tension all together. (Surface agitation)

Remember back to the days of the aquariums? Remember how people had those bubble stones? It's a common misconception that the bubbles oxygenated the water. In fact, the act of the bubbles breaking the surface tension of the water, is what allows oxygen (and other gasses) to enter the water.

There is absolutely no way you are going to oxygenate a liquid, simply by exposing it.

A little bit of neat trivia for you.

The ocean is oxygenated only two ways. Through streams and rivers that enter it, and by the gravitational pull of the moon. The gravitational pull of the moon is what is responsible for creating both the waves themselves, and the tides. The big, air gulping waves are what gives the ocean over 90% of its dissolved o2 supply. If the moon were to be destroyed, then the earth would die. Because the ocean would stagnate and the organism that is responsible for 99% of the worlds oxygen supply would die off......(no, not trees as green peace would have you believe) Cyanobacteria. Or simply, algae.

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I like the cut of your jib, Sir!

tackett said:

Wait a minute stop...

Click to expand...

fascinating! thanks for that!

back on topic, by all means take a peek. but, the waiting time will seem shorter if you just set it aside and go about your life for two weeks.
two british sayings; a watched pot never boils / out of sight out of mind.

The liquid oxygenation explanation above is awesome. I knew that exposure to oxygen alone never ruined my beer, but never really thought about it until now.

All I can share are me experiences. I've done 30+ 5-gallon batches in buckets, and about half of those were semi open fermentations. If you haven't heard of it, search for "open fermentation" or do a Google image search to see it.

I plug the airlock hole on the bucket lid and loosely place it on top of the fermenter without snapping it down, leaving it that way throughout the fermentation. I repeatedly pull the lid off to check if the krausen has dropped, harvest yeast by skimming the top, to take gravity readings, to add and remove dry hops, take taste samples, check for clarity, and add gelatin. When I don't add dry hops directly into the beer, I use a hop bag. Once I'm done dry hopping, I pull them out and squeeze all the beer and hop juice out, which causes a bit of splashing. I also take samples with a wine thief, which causes a bit of splashing as well. Even with all of this, I have never had oxidized beer or a single infection. As long as whatever touches the beer is clean and sanitized it will be fine. It's not like I spray StarSan on my hands when I squeeze the hop bags either. I just wash them well with hot water and soap, and I don't dry them with a kitchen towel for sure.

Like I said, I have no experience with oxidized beer, but I imagine it would require a lot of vigorous splashing for it to turn bad. And as long as nothing dirty is going into the beer, infections shouldn't be a high risk either.

And just so you know, I ferment this way often because I use a compact fridge for temperature control. It's easier than having to pull the bucket in and out of the fridge to pop the lid off. This way, I can leave the bucket alone and just pull the lid up to do whatever I need to do. When I ferment in my pantry, I do snap the lid on and use an airlock because our trash and recycle bin are in there as well. There's more of a chance for things like fruit flies that may be able to squeeze in under a loosely placed lid.

It's home brew and its your beer. Do what works for you.

Well I finally got a good seal on my fermenter and subsequently brewed my first beer with no acetydehyde. Coincidence? Maybe, but I'll keep doing what works. I also did a few other things differently such as using a stone and oxygen tank to aerate when I pitched. Possibly just got the yeast going better.

tackett said:

There is absolutely no way you are going to oxygenate a liquid, simply by exposing it.

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Well, maybe you won't "oxygenate" it, but you can certainly ruin it by oxidation, simply by exposing it to oxygen.

Try it. Take two bottles of wine. Open then. Leave it open overnight. Don't agitate it, or anything to "oxygenate it". Taste it the next day. Not too bad, but not too good. Taste the other one in a week. Boom- oxidized wine. I promise. (Cover with cheesecloth or something to prevent fruitflies and the like.) If you want really really oxidized wine, move the bottle around so it increased the oxygen uptake. It'll get worse, faster. But even without splashing or moving it, you will get oxidation. That's why winemakers (and brewers who age long term in a carboy) use a carboy and top up to the narrowest part of the carboy, and/or purge with inert gas.

It's not "oxygenation" that would do it, but instead, it's "oxidation".

Heat and movement will accelerate oxidation, but it's certainly not required. Oxidation can happen in a perfectly still environment whenever there is oxygen present.

I just don't see a point in opening it if you don't have to. What is stopping airborne bacteria or wild yeast from entering your wort if you open the lid? The more times you expose it to elements, the risks of infection grow. It won't ferment any faster if you open the lid.