Stuck Sparges only with 10 gal rubbermaid

Initially getting into all grain I converted a 5 gal. rubbermaid using the stainless steel braid method found here. This cooler has worked great, making many batches of beer, giving good efficiency.

Anyways, christmas rolls around and I recieve a larger brew pot capable of brewing 10+ gallon batches. Needing a bigger cooler and having such good luck with the first rubbermaid. I purchased a 10 gal. rubbermaid and converted it using the same parts as the first one. It has been used 3 times and gets a stuck sparge everytime. It was used in combination with the 5 gal. (for larger grain bills) twice and the 5 gal had no problem while the 10 had to be stirred and restarted for initial runnings and sparge.

I would think if it was a problem with the crush the 5 gal cooler would also have problems.

Am I missing something here? Anyone have any suggestions?

Did you also upgrade with a pump?

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I'm wondering if the extra weight of the grain (and water) in your 10 gallon cooler is what is causing the stuck sparge. What diameter braid are you using? The toilet size? Or the washing machine size? If it's the toilet size, I imagine that might be the problem.

Pump shouldn't be an issue. I have a rectangular cooler, but my friend with a 10 gal rubbermaid doesn't use a pump, and he has no problems.

TheBeerist said:

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I'm wondering if the extra weight of the grain (and water) in your 10 gallon cooler is what is causing the stuck sparge. What diameter braid are you using? The toilet size? Or the washing machine size? If it's the toilet size, I imagine that might be the problem.

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That was my first thought...how fast you are draining as well as the diamater of the braid & cooler could also affect it. I am looking into going to a 10 gal. as well but I am planning on uping my braid, probably going to have a tee in there to add another braid...maybe a circular style or something...I believe in Palmer's book (I lent mine to a friend so don't have to reference) he talks about this and gives examples how the wort will drain...and like TheBeerist said...the weight and size will affect this...here is the topic...

Appendix D - Building a Mash/Lauter Tun
D.2 Tun Geometry and Flow Potential

you can go to his website...http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixD-2.html

Hope this gives you some insight...Rock On!!:rockin:

I use the 10 gal cooler and braid and found that if you only open your drain all the way, it compacts the grain bed too much causing a stuck sparge. Only open it up halfway and it wont get stuck as easy

It does seem like the grain bed gets compacted, but I have been openning the valve less then half way and this still results in a stuck sparge. Maybe I'll try adding more braid like kugster suggested. I'll have to get to home depot and find some tees.

Thanks

I did the same, went from a 5g round to a 10 g round and reused everything initially but I use a false bottom. My first batch, I had the dreaded stuck sparge. So I did some reading on the subject of braids verses false bottoms and the decided to stick with a FB. After I got my larger FB, 12" verses the 9" one I had on the smaller MLT, no more stuck sparges.

As far as the braid, it is defiantly worth doing a circular braid, about .7 of the overall diameter to get the best results. However, if I was going to go that route, I think I would make a octagon pvc or copper manifold with slits on the bottom instead.

Snowhere said:

As far as the braid, it is defiantly worth doing a circular braid, about .7 of the overall diameter to get the best results. However, if I was going to go that route, I think I would make a octagon pvc or copper manifold with slits on the bottom instead.

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I like that idea. There would leave no chance for the weight to compress the braid...nice! I wonder if a thin screen could be attached/placed onto the tube...maybe removable (for cleaning) to prevent a S.S.? Plus then you would loose the "metal" in the tank. (Something i just really don't care for...I know it really doesn't effect it but in my mind....)

on the pvc...there are no worries about the pvc cement?

When I use my 10 gallon cooler with cpvc manifold, I put the entire manifold in a 5 gallon paint strainer bag from Home Depot. I tie the bag end in a knot, and put the pipe through a hole in it to connect to my bulkhead.
Never had a stuck sparge after doing this!

Dave258 said:

When I use my 10 gallon cooler with cpvc manifold, I put the entire manifold in a 5 gallon paint strainer bag from Home Depot. I tie the bag end in a knot, and put the pipe through a hole in it to connect to my bulkhead.
Never had a stuck sparge after doing this!

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Gosh...I love this site!!! Al these good ideas...

Kugster said:

on the pvc...there are no worries about the pvc cement?

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Good question and I think the short answer is as long as the cement is dry, it should not leech off and it is safe. It would still be worth your while to just use the minimum amount of glue needed to hold things together. Since many a waterline is pvc, I would not worry too much. But if you are concerned, just go the copper manifold route.

Snowhere said:

Good question and I think the short answer is as long as the cement is dry, it should not leech off and it is safe. It would still be worth your while to just use the minimum amount of glue needed to hold things together. Since many a waterline is pvc, I would not worry too much. But if you are concerned, just go the copper manifold route.

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You should use cpvc instead of PVC. PVC is not used for drinking water cpvc is ok for drinking water.
On the glue and cleaner, just make sure it says it is ok for cpvc. Many are ok for both PVC and cpvc. Just use cpvc pipe.

Thanks for clearing that up Dave. I tend to forget the c in cvpc when I think about it as I don't use the stuff myself.

Dave258 said:

When I use my 10 gallon cooler with cpvc manifold, I put the entire manifold in a 5 gallon paint strainer bag from Home Depot. I tie the bag end in a knot, and put the pipe through a hole in it to connect to my bulkhead.
Never had a stuck sparge after doing this!

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I did this out of necessity the other day. I've been using the 10 gallon cooler and cvpc manifold for about 9 months now and only noticed stuck sparges this fall as I started upping my grain bills (or putting an extra 9lbs of pumpkin into the mash tun). The last couple of times it was so bad I dumped my whole mash into two buckets once I put a paint strainer around the manifold and the other time I threw a largish colander on top of the manifold and replaced everything. Wort oxygenation risk aside I was pretty pleased with the end result. ( so far so good on that beer RDWHAHB .

Anyway today I found a $0.96 pizza pan at Wallmart so I built a pseudo false bottom strictly for the purpose of keeping weight off the manifold. It's pretty ghetto, but hopefully it does the trick. I never have stuck mashes with wheat because rice hulls do the trick, but I've never done a wheat with a 16 lb grist. Seems like every time I have more than 14lbs of grain (regardless of my wheat/oat/rye %) I get a stuck sparge.

I have a 10 G rubber maid and after ~30 batches of beer, only had a stuck sparge once, and it was very brief. I had 2# oats and 1# walnuts that didn't help.

Anyway, I use a T and have a short, circular braid. The difference between mine and everyone else's is that I put compression springs inside the braid so that it wouldn't collapse. I've had 26# of grain on it without issue. Might be a cheap tweak to get you back up and running.

Have you tried swapping the manifold/screen/whatever you are using in the 5gal to the 10gal? If it doesn't get stuck when you do that then theres your problem right there. If you try one change at a time then you will learn what the problem was and be able to avoid it in the future.