Whats an appropriate wattage element for this RIMS vessel?

Is it a RIMS vessel, boiler, tube? anyway. So I have a few of these gems, there are SS filter housings I bought from a medical surplus store. I thought it would make a great RIMS, hopback etc. It measures 4" dia x 12" long. I figured I'd mount the element in the removable end and weld 1/2" FNPT fittings along one side (in typical RIMS fashion). There is a threaded port on the "closed" end that I think will work for the temp sensor. On major question I have is about the volume of this thing. It's much larger in diameter than the ones other HBT'ers have been making with pipe. So is this vessel better or less suited for a RIMS and do I choose a heating element based on my wants for the system or do I need to compensate for the larger volume?

I think you could go with a normal low-density 2000 watt element and adjust for the volume increase by lowering your flow rate just a bit. I wouldn't be too concerned about even heating since the constricted outlets will cause a good deal of turbulence. Now the better question is "what 'medical fluids' were stored in that thing." Wash, rinse, repeat.

That looks pretty dang nice man!

The volume of flow is going to affect heat transfer more than the static volume of the heat exchanger. I'm running 4500W in my HEX right now with out any issues. It was overheating and boiling the contents but that was my fault, the feedback probe was to0 far up stream and wouldn't catch the over shoot. With that said, I am VERY happy with 4500W, as I can do step mashes now just using the HEX.

I wouldn't use more than 4500W, not for scorching issues but because 4500W is plenty.

On the other end of the spectrum, 1200W is enough if you are well insulated and patient

pickles said:

On major question I have is about the volume of this thing. It's much larger in diameter than the ones other HBT'ers have been making with pipe. So is this vessel better or less suited for a RIMS

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It's a cool piece of hardware, but I would think that it's much too big to be an efficient RIMS chamber. I think you'd have to run it really slowly to be effective.

Just insulate it really well and slow down your flow rate. Patience = virture. This coming from the BiaB/no-chill guy. ADD sucks for brewing.

lustreking said:

It's a cool piece of hardware, but I would think that it's much too big to be an efficient RIMS chamber. I think you'd have to run it really slowly to be effective.

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It's all about heat transfer over time. Just because it is in a bigger container doesn't mean that the element will put in less X watts of heat energy per second compared to a smaller chamber with the same element.

What will affect it is volume in and volume out. A large hex and small hex will have approx the same temp delta as long as wattage and flow rates are equal.
The one thing that will affect efficiency is the extra surface area of the larger unit. This can be addressed with insulation.


pickles, I'd say go 4500W if you can

CodeRage said:

It's all about heat transfer over time. Just because it is in a bigger container doesn't mean that the element will put in less X watts of heat energy per second compared to a smaller chamber with the same element.

What will affect it is volume in and volume out. A large hex and small hex will have approx the same temp delta as long as wattage and flow rates are equal.
The one thing that will affect efficiency is the extra surface area of the larger unit. This can be addressed with insulation.


pickles, I'd say go 4500W if you can

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Would he need all that power if he is simply recirculating to maintain the MLT temperature?

Thanks CodeRage!!! Thats all I wanted to hear. 4500W here I come. I need to find one of the chrome Camco heating elements that is about 11" long. Now you mentioned the sensor being too far away, if I put mine in that threaded port on the closed end will it be in an appropriate location? Remeber it's 12" end to end.

Sawdustguy,
Nah, the duty cycle will bump way down to maintain temps.
To maintain temps you could switch one of the legs of the element to Neutral, making it a 1250W element. This will reduce the 20 amps draw on one leg and 10 amps on the other. You won't necessarily be conserving power but you will open up some amperage for the service if you wanted to start heating up the BK or HLT if your current budget is tight. It would require a second PID controller or some logic in a BCS/Brewtroller (don't know how flexible these devices are...).

Pickles,
It's hard to tell where you are going to locate everything.
I would locate the element at the base of the container. One reason is to eliminate extra potential leaks around the element. If it is in the cap you risk the threads leaking or the sanitary fitting leaking.
How do you plan to mount it, horizontal or vertical?

I have a Brewtroller for control and a 50A GFCI supplying the rig. I don't know how the Brewtroller would control it, but I'm sure it can do it. Why do you think the risk of leaking would increase if its in the lid, just curious? If I mount it in the closed end I assume I'd put the sensor in the lid then? I can mount it either way, but thought horizontal would be better, eliminate the risk of element not being submerged?

It's the lid has an additional point of failure, doubling your chances of an issue. It may still be remote but that how I look at it.

Submersion of the element isn't really affect by orientation but rather if the element is located below the kettle. Gravity will take care of the rest for you as long as you don't have it hydraulically closed.

With horizontal mounting I would have the inlet mounted at the cap and the outlet out of the port by the base. Mount the element in the base as well. Have the outlet facing down so the chamber will completely drain. You could try to mount the probe in the hex by the outlet but I think you would have better results with it T'ed off the outlet plumbing as close to the hex as possible.

Should the outlet actually be on the side near the base to get it to empty completely if mounted horizontally? Or did you mean vertical mounting with input and output in either end, then it would drain properly?

The outlet should be at the lowest point possible so it drains completely. The Inlet and outlet should be as far away from each other as possible too.

CAMCO 02583 4500W LWD element.

Google it, they are about 10-15 bucks

CodeRage said:

It's all about heat transfer over time. Just because it is in a bigger container doesn't mean that the element will put in less X watts of heat energy per second compared to a smaller chamber with the same element.

What will affect it is volume in and volume out. A large hex and small hex will have approx the same temp delta as long as wattage and flow rates are equal.
The one thing that will affect efficiency is the extra surface area of the larger unit. This can be addressed with insulation.


pickles, I'd say go 4500W if you can

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x2 and right on.

I've heard a lot of talk on this board about different tube sizes making a difference on the heat transfer. You're dead right that the VOLUMETRIC FLOWRATE of the wort is what matters, not the volume of the tube (unless boiling). Because if you think about it, your HLT or electric kettle is essentially a HUGE rims tube with zero flow. No one thinks their heat transfer efficiency is going to be hurt in there, do they?

You're absolutely right, the only difference will be that the larger surface area will increase the rate of heat loss to the air. A little insulation and it's not a big concern.

goatchze said:

A little insulation and it's not a big concern.

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But it's sooo shiny!

Thanks ThePol, I'm googling right this moment.

CodeRage, I think I may orient it vertically with input in lid (on top) and element and output on closed end (on bottom). Place sensor in tee directly after outlet.

pickles said:

But it's sooo shiny!

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Polished shiny surfaces are poor for transmitting radiant heat. Insulation is be better at retaining what does radiate though I think you will be fine un-insulated.

CodeRage said:

Polished shiny surfaces are poor for transmitting radiant heat. Insulation is be better at retaining what does radiate though I think you will be fine un-insulated.

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You certainly don't have to insulate it. My point was that heat loss is the only thing that the larger "tube size" affects.

Good luck!

goatchze said:

You certainly don't have to insulate it. My point was that heat loss is the only thing that the larger "tube size" affects.

Good luck!

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Agreed. I was just trying say that if he went with no insulation the shiny is working in his favor. I wouldn't insulate it either if I were using a BMF element!

So can I use a 25A SSR on this bad boy? I figure depending on my actual line voltage (220-240) I could draw anywhere from 18.75A to 20.5A. I think that enough below the rating for a 25A SSR. Maybe the voltage doesn't vary I'm not positive. I found Opto and Omega SSRs on ebay cheap.

Or this
Crydom D2440-10 Solid State Relays 240V 40A max 32vdc input

Yeah, I've been using 25A SSRs for 4500W for a while now with no issue.

I found a better deal on the Crydom 40A. Is that a quality brand?