I'd like help with this recipe, please!

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homebrewbeliever

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Hello HBT community! I drank a pint of Deschutes Brewery's Hop Henge the other day and loved it... it was over 10% ABV and 95 IBU's, and it was a great Imperial IPA. I'd like to brew something similar, although slightly different, and I was looking on their website where they list the malts and hop varieties used (http://www.deschutesbrewery.com/recipe/hop-henge-clone) to help me formulate my recipe. Although I've brewed many different recipes, I am still rather new to formulating my own recipes... I'd really appreciate it if some of you wouldn't mind looking over the recipe that I've come up with and letting me know if you have any suggestions! :mug:

Target OG: 1.088
Target FG: 1.015 (9.6% ABV)
IBU's: 96.75
Color: 13.0 SRM
Batch Size: 5.00 Gal
Boil Time: 90 minutes

Primary 14 days @ 68.0°F
Secondary 14 days @ 72.0°F
Keg 14 days @ 40.0°F

Grains & Adjuncts
14.00 lbs (71.79 %) Pale Malt (2 Row) UK
2.50 lbs (12.82 %) Munich Malt - 10L
2.00 lbs (10.26 %) Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L
0.50 lbs (2.56 %) Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L
0.50 lbs (2.56 %) Cara-Pils/Dextrine

Hops
1.00 ozs Magnum - 60 mins
0.25 ozs Centennial - 60 mins
1.00 ozs Centennial - 30 mins
1.00 ozs Northern Brewer - 30 mins
1.00 ozs Cascade - 10 mins
0.25 ozs Centennial - 10 mins
1.00 ozs Amarillo Gold - 10 mins
1.00 ozs Cascade - Dry hop for 14 days
0.50 ozs Northern Brewer - Dry hop for 14 days
1.00 ozs Amarillo Gold - Dry hop for 14 days

Yeasts
Wyeast Labs 1318 - London Ale III

Additions
1.00 tsp Irish Moss - 15 mins Boil

Mash Profile
Sacch' Rest 60 min @ 152.0°F
 
I would say you might want to scale down your crystal malts. Three pounds of crystal malt in a five gallon batch is quite a bit, especially in a big beer. I would take the C10 down to one pound. You could replace it with either more base malt or some simple sugar even.
 
I would say you might want to scale down your crystal malts. Three pounds of crystal malt in a five gallon batch is quite a bit, especially in a big beer. I would take the C10 down to one pound. You could replace it with either more base malt or some simple sugar even.

Thanks! Since I am still learning how to formulate recipes, can you please tell me why it'd be a bad idea to have that much crystal malt in a 5 gallon batch? What would it do to the flavor? Also, what about the Munich malt, is that weight okay?
 
Also, I'm a bit confused... I've read many places that you can easily use up to 20% crystal malts, where as other places say that you shouldn't use more than 5%. I think it may come down to personal preference, but I am having a bit of a difficult time figuring out why the jury is still out on this one. :confused:
 
It's not so much the flavor that you need to worry about, it is the fermentability. Although flavor does have a role. A beer with that high of an OG is already going to struggle to ferment out into the teens range. Crystal malts are for the most part unfermentable. You can go higher on crystal malts on lower OG beers to build in some extra body and mouthfeel. Some English bitters and milds may have around 20%, but they are 1.035-045 OG. You will have plenty of body and mouthfeel with a beer that big without loading up on crystal malts.

My go to IPA grain bill is usually something like -
80-85% 2-row
10% Munich
5-10% C-10
Sometimes I will drop the munich malt even and go 95-5 with some C-40

You can switch out some of the C-10 with c-60 if you like some C-60 in there. If you go too heavy on the crystals on an IIPA, you will end up with a crystal malt soup and it will hide the hops too much. Plus, you will probably end up with an FG around 1.030. You don't want too much residual sweetness or the beer will be way too sweet even with the IBU load. It just becomes a flavor mess, with nothing really standing out.
 
8-12% Munich
7-10% Crystal 60
The rest, American 2-row... or some mixture of American and English 2-row

Mash temp of about 154 F to account for no use of carapils and higher FG.

Start boil volume will need to be about 8 gallons. End batch = 5.5 gallons with 0.5 lost when bottling.

Bitter well beyond 100 theoretical IBUs.
Big with the Northern Brewer at 90 (2-3 oz.) then again at 45 (1-2 oz)
Add a 1 oz. mid charge of either Milennium or Centennial at 30
2 oz. mix of Millenium and Centennial at 10 min
3 oz. Centennial and Amarillo for a 30 minute flameout/whirlpool
5-6 oz. mixed Amarillo and Cascade for the dryhop

3-4 week primary - 1-2 week secondary

Go with Dry English Ale yeast, WLP007. You'll need a huge, healthy yeast starter. Check out mrmalty or yeastcalc.com
 
Hop Henge definitely had a fair amount of Crystal malt if I remember the bottle I had last year, I'd probably go with 1.5-2 lbs total for that. 2-2.5 lbs of Munich would be a good start as well. As far as the hopping goes, there's going to be a lot of trial and error involved if you really want to replicate Deschutes. I'd say the Magnum and Northern Brewer would be more towards the bittering spectrum of things, and then just load up the back half with the citrusy American hops to your hearts content. Big flameout addition (3 or so oz) and big dry hop (another 3-4 or so oz) is probably where I'd start.
 
Thanks for the suggestions! I've tweaked the recipe a bit based on some more research and your recommendations. I got rid of the NB hops and replaced them with citra hops, as I'd prefer the citrusy notes over the earthy ones that NB gives off. Also, I scaled back the dry hop time from 14 to 7 days, as I am a little worried about getting the grassy flavors. Also, I scaled back the Crystal 10L to one pound and upped the dextrine malt by a quarter pound. The modified grain bill and hop schedule looks like this:

Grains & Adjuncts
15.00 lbs (75.95 %) Pale Malt (2 Row) UK
2.50 lbs (12.66 %) Munich Malt - 10L
1.00 lbs (5.06 %) Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L
0.50 lbs (2.53 %) Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L
0.75 lbs (3.80 %) Cara-Pils/Dextrine

Hops
1.00 ozs Magnum - 60 mins
0.25 ozs Centennial - 60 mins
1.00 ozs Centennial - 30 mins
1.00 ozs Citra - 30 mins
1.00 ozs Cascade - 10 mins
0.25 ozs Centennial - 10 mins
1.00 ozs Amarillo Gold - 10 mins
1.00 ozs Cascade - Dry hop for 7 days
0.50 ozs Centennial - Dry hop for 7 days
1.00 ozs Amarillo Gold - Dry hop for 7 days
0.50 ozs Citra - Dry hop for 7 days

How's this look? Also, do you think I've got too much of the cara-pils/dextrine malt? I've found that it doesn't contribute much to flavor or sweetness, but really helps the body and the mouth-feel of the beer... Still, I am a novice, so I am looking for feedback.
 
Go with Dry English Ale yeast, WLP007. You'll need a huge, healthy yeast starter. Check out mrmalty or yeastcalc.com

Dig. I love white labs' yeast, but I don't think I've used that particular strain yet. From the website's info, it seems like it'd be a great strain to use, especially with the reported 76-80% attenuation. I will use that yeast instead of the London Ale III by Wyeast.
 
I got rid of the NB hops and replaced them with citra hops, as I'd prefer the citrusy notes over the earthy ones that NB gives off.

Despite their name, "Citra" hops are not really that "Citrusy". They have a very unique tropical focus... with a backend of grapefruit, like most Pacific Northwest hops. There are many other American hops which are better at offering "Citrus" than Citra. If you want pure citrus, you'll get that with Cascade.

Your hops heavily favor middle additions over early additions. For such a big, heavy IIPA, you want more of a focus on early additions. You'll also want a substantial whirlpool/flameout/0 min addition and an even more substantial dryhops.

Also, do you think I've got too much of the cara-pils/dextrine malt? I've found that it doesn't contribute much to flavor or sweetness, but really helps the body and the mouth-feel of the beer... Still, I am a novice, so I am looking for feedback.

For your goals, I would just mash higher. At that moderately high FG, it's not unrealistic that they mashed at 154 F and did not use carapils. The higher mash temp will also allow you to use less crystal yet still maintain the illusion of sweetness given off by the bigger body. But to answer your question... no... 3.80% carapils is not overboard.
 
Your hops heavily favor middle additions over early additions. For such a big, heavy IIPA, you want more of a focus on early additions. You'll also want a substantial whirlpool/flameout/0 min addition and an even more substantial dryhops.

Thanks, I will change up the hop schedule again a bit. I am not sure I will need to do a flamout addition if I am going to dry hop so much, right? I am going to dry hop with 4 oz of hops for 7 days, which I think would give off a substantial aroma. At that point, it seems like it would be a waste to do such a heavy flamout addition, but I may be way off there... Also I got rid of the carapils and will just mash at 154*F. The crystal malts make up around 7% of the grain bill, so I think that should be enough (again, if I'm wrong, say something please).
 
Focus on the dryhop is the most important step, but whirlpool/flameout additions are a close second in terms of having the most intoxicating aroma attainable. For my IPAs, I use about 60-80% of my total hops for dryhop AND whirlpool.
 
bobbrews said:
Focus on the dryhop is the most important step, but whirlpool/flameout additions are a close second in terms of having the most intoxicating aroma attainable. For my IPAs, I use about 60-80% of my total hops for dryhop AND whirlpool.

Wow, good to know. What about early and middle additions, then? Do you not focus so heavily on middle additions and mostly on early (for bitterness) and late/dry additions (for aroma)? Can you give me a brief example of one of your hop schedules with weights and times?
 
I'll give you some commercial examples, and purported clone recipes:

Pliny the Elder
28% early
14% middle
28% late
30% dryhop

Fat Head's Head Hunter
21% early
17% middle
28% late
34% dryhop

Ninkasi Tricerahops
23% early
16% middle
27% late
34% dryhop

Stone IPA
22% early
0% middle
44% late
34% dryhop

Kern Citra IIPA
13% early
8% middle
25% late
54% dryhop

FW Union Jack
6% early
19% middle
31% late
44% dryhop

The amount of total hops used for each of these beers is different. For instance, per 5 gallon batch, Stone IPA only uses about 4.5 oz. total hops and Pliny the Elder uses about 12.5 oz. total hops.
 
bobbrews said:
I'll give you some commercial examples, and purported clone recipes:

Pliny the Elder
28% early
14% middle
28% late
30% dryhop

Fat Head's Head Hunter
21% early
17% middle
28% late
34% dryhop

Ninkasi Tricerahops
23% early
16% middle
27% late
34% dryhop

Stone IPA
22% early
0% middle
44% late
34% dryhop

Kern Citra IIPA
13% early
8% middle
25% late
54% dryhop

FW Union Jack
6% early
19% middle
31% late
44% dryhop

The amount of total hops used for each of these beers is different. For instance, per 5 gallon batch, Stone IPA only uses about 4.5 oz. total hops and Pliny the Elder uses about 12.5 oz. total hops.

Awesome! Thanks so much for the examples, it really helps. However, I am interested in knowing what qualifies as a "late" addition. I have heard many people saying that throwing the hops within the last 10 minutes is considered a late addition (which is what I've been doing), and yet others say that true late additions are thrown in at knockout. Even then, there are differences in opinion about what throwing hops in at knockout really looks like: whether they are thrown in when the flame is off and left in while the wort cools, or whether they are thrown in when the flame is off and then the wort is allowed to sit for a while before cooling... I'd be interested in hearing others' opinions about this.
 
Generally, on average...

90-60 min - Early
45-20 min - Middle
15-0 min - Late
5-10 days - Dryhop
 

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