5 or 10 gallon mash tun?

Good day everyone. I'm starting to gather the extra equipment needed for all grain, but I'm not sure how big of a mash tun I should make or purchase. Most of beers I enjoy are below 1.080 for OG, so I'm not sure if that makes a difference. I only plan on brewing 5 gallon batches, but what size mash tun should I purchase?

Thanks for your help!

What size to build? Pretty much the biggest one you can afford/fit. I wouldn't go smaller than the 10 gallon MLT. Even at 1.080. That's almost 15# of grain. At 1.25 qt/# your looking at almost 6 gallons of space. You'll never regret going for the 10 gallons.

Green Bay Rackers--Mash Calculators (Third Calculator Down - Can I Mash It?)

Hammy71 said:

What size to build? Pretty much the biggest one you can afford/fit. I wouldn't go smaller than the 10 gallon MLT. Even at 1.080. That's almost 15# of grain. At 1.25 qt/# your looking at almost 6 gallons of space. You'll never regret going for the 10 gallons.

Green Bay Rackers--Mash Calculators (Third Calculator Down - Can I Mash It?)

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I agree with this. I just did my first all-grain batch yesterday using a 5 gallon MLT I got on craigslist and I already can see where I'll need a 10 gallon mash tun moving forward.

People always say bigger is better. But I don't believe it's as cut and dried as that.

I've used my 5 gallon cooler for 5 years, on 5 gallon batches and have never had a problem. At 1.25 it actually holds nearly 13 pounds of grain. Since most of my grainbills run between 10 and 14 pounds, I have no problem. for 14 pounds I just use about a 1.15 quarts/pound mash dillution. Or for 15pounds I go with a 1 quart/gallon.

14 pounds of 2-row in a 5 gallon batch gives you a 1.076 OG so it's not a small beer.

I rarely need a larger mash tun. If I'm making a bigger beer I'm often doing a 2.5 gallon batch instead of a 5 gallon one and those 14 pounds would then make a beer with an og of 1.151..... If I do want to make a 5 gallon batch of a big beer, or a larger than 5 gallon batch, I have a TON of homebrewing buddies, with all sorts of systems and sizes of mash tuns, and they'd let me use their geer. and if it's a barleywine or something like that, we're all brewing together then anyway, or hanging out.

I really don't have the space for a 10 gallon cooler, and like I said, in 5 years of using my 5 I've never had the need to go with a bigger one for more than a 1 shot deal. I maybe brew 1 huge beer a year anyway.

Other folks have other opinions, but in truth, you can make a lot of beer in a 5 gallon cooler.

If you wanna be realistic and practical and it not just be about the biggest toys, you need to ask yourself a couple of questions.

1) Am I ever going to brew larger than 5 gallon batches?
2) Are the majority if not all of my batches going to have an og higher than 1.076 (14 pounds of grain?)
3) Do I have the money or the storage space for a larger one?

It really comes down to those questions. In my case all three of those were no.

You could also add a fourth question- If I need to brew bigger once in awhile can I lay my hands on a bigger cooler. My Answer to that was yes.

So to me, a larger cooler was overkill, in light of living in a loft and not having much storage, nor having a realistic need for a larger one.

If you really are brewing only beers 1.080 and under, the 5 gallon cooler is probably best. I say this mostly because of headspace - the less of it, the better it holds the temp. If you ever decided you really wanted to do a huge beer you could just mash your specialty grains and as much base malt as it would hold, and make up the difference with DME. No shame in that.

Revvy said:

People always say bigger is better. But I don't believe it's as cut and dried as that.

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+1

I use a 5 gallon round cooler. It handles up to 12 lbs of grain pretty easily, or up to 14 in a pinch. I also have a 15 gallon rectangular cooler for the occasional big beer. The round cooler has a false bottom. The rectangular cooler has a bazooka screen. Both have stainless valves. The smaller cooler, as configured, cost a little more than the bigger cooler.

I like using the 5 gallon round cooler way more than the rectangular cooler. It's easier to clean. The false bottom seems to work better than the bazooka screen. I seem to get better efficiency with it, for whatever reason. The temp hardly changes in a one hour mash. All things considered it's easier to use.

If I had to choose one I'd go with the 5 gallon round. In the few instances where it wasn't big enough for the job I'd figure out a work around; such as the aforementioned extract addition, which I've been known to do.

I found that the first few batches of beer in my cooler MLT, I had problems hitting my target temp and had to add water to adjust the temp. If you are at 12 lbs of grain in a five gallon MLT, you do not have room to do that. I have also found that I get much better efficiency with a ratio closer to 1.5 quarts per pound of grain, and that further limits your capacity. I had a five gallon, and in four batches had to upgrade for these and other reasons. You will not be sorry if you go straight to a 10 gallon.

As for headspace and temperature retention, you will have no problem with a 10 gallon at any size batch. Yesterday I did a batch with 15 lbs of grain - so just over half full - while it was 40 degrees outside. It only lost 1 degree of temperature in an hour, and I opened and stirred it several times.

Most of my batches are between 10 and 14 lbs in a 10G cooler MLT. I definitely appreciate the extra space, especially for decoction mashes and the option to do a no-sparge lauter.

Plus, a fermenter won't fit in a 5G cooler:

FWIW - I originally bought a 5 gallon cooler but returned it for a 10 gallon the same day deciding I wanted the option in the future to brew 10 gallon batches or bigger beers. I am so glad I did get the bigger one. I haven't had any problem with loosing too much heat on smaller batches. I just always make sure to wrap it in a blanket. 90% of my beers are under 1.070 but I like to have the extra space to have the option to brew a DIPA if I want. I have only done one big brew but was so glad I had the option. Also, in a recent BYO they talked about the benefits of a no sparge method where you just add your entire water amount to your mash. This is supposed to give you a much better malt flavor. There is no way you could do that in a 5 gallon tun.

For me it is all about the options to brew whatever beer I want. The only way to get that is a 10 gallon tun.

Why not shoot for the possible future? I can't see any reason not to go with a 10 gallon. So many people start with the smaller and later go bigger, everything from kettles to MLT's. I got a 10 gallon and so far haven't done anything over a 10.5lb bill but I have no problems hitting and maintaining my temps and I have room for larger grain bills, and as mentioned, adjustment water if ever necessary.


Rev.

Rev2010 said:

Why not shoot for the possible future? I can't see any reason not to go with a 10 gallon. So many people start with the smaller and later go bigger, everything from kettles to MLT's. I got a 10 gallon and so far haven't done anything over a 10.5lb bill but I have no problems hitting and maintaining my temps and I have room for larger grain bills, and as mentioned, adjustment water if ever necessary.


Rev.

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And others never feel the need to go bigger......Like I said, that's one of the questions you ask yourself. It's not like i brew 1 or 2 batches of beer. I brew a LOT, probably more than most folks participating in this question, and I still can't see a reason to go bigger.

Revvy said:

And others never feel the need to go bigger......Like I said, that's one of the questions you ask yourself. It's not like i brew 1 or 2 batches of beer. I brew a LOT, probably more than most folks participating in this question, and I still can't see a reason to go bigger.

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Hmm, you shared your opinion and I shared mine. Don't see much of a reason to post countering what I said. What works for you is great, and sure it will work for many others. But fact here is in plain sight and visible everywhere on this forum - ie. meaning many do go small only to go bigger later. Many start with partial boils then think they need a 5 or 8 gallon pot only to later get a 10, etc. That was my point and it wasn't false, and of course it doesn't apply to everyone, but it seems pretty prevalent here and I can't see any negatives outside a few extra bucks to get a 10 gallon. You don't see a reason to go bigger yet others have given reasons why but no one has yet said why it would be in any way bad to go a little bigger.


Rev.

Rev2010 said:

You don't see a reason to go bigger yet others have given reasons why but no one has yet said why it would be in any way bad to go a little bigger.

Rev.

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Revvy gave a reason and so did I - although "bad" may be a little strong, but a larger cooler takes up more space, and also if you make only 5 gallon batches of pale and amber ale the huge headspace in the cooler would be of no benefit to your beer.

Very little extra space and the extra headspace doesn't have any negative affect. Not convincing me here, if someone is brewing AG chances are the difference in space isn't going to matter much at all anyway. I gave my opinion, sorry if any of you disagree.


Rev.

I would go 10 gallons so you don't limit yourself for high gravity beers (for 5 gallon batches). Alternately, you would have to make less than 5 gallons.

Also I like to mash out by adding water to my grain at the end of the mash, and a 5 gallon cooler would not work for that purpose.

Also consider if you want to do 10 gallon batches in the future at all. I have an 11 gallon mash tun and can do a 10.5 gallon batch of 1.07 no problem in that.

Just need to focus on the scope of what you plan on doing for beers. 5 gallons of barleywine, RIS, or other high gravity beer is a lot of heavy beer in my eyes,

if it wasn't for wanting to do 10-15 gallon batches i would have probably stuck with a smaller mash tun.

I have both a 5 gallon and a 10 gallon igloo MLT. I never use the 5 gallon, as it maxes out at about 12 pounds of grain (1.065). I just use the bigger MLT for all beers, whether 5 gallon or 10 gallon batches.

If you will never, ever, ever make a batch "bigger" than 5 gallons at about 1.065, a 5 gallon MLT may be adequate. But most often, filling it to the very top is a pain because if you miss your mash temperature target, you can't add/stir in any boiling water to raise the temperature. You can never do a mash out, or infusion mashing. The 10 gallon MLT may be bigger, but it's much more functional in more settings.

Yooper said:

I have both a 5 gallon and a 10 gallon igloo MLT. I never use the 5 gallon, as it maxes out at about 12 pounds of grain (1.065). I just use the bigger MLT for all beers, whether 5 gallon or 10 gallon batches.

If you will never, ever, ever make a batch "bigger" than 5 gallons at about 1.065, a 5 gallon MLT may be adequate. But most often, filling it to the very top is a pain because if you miss your mash temperature target, you can't add/stir in any boiling water to raise the temperature. You can never do a mash out, or infusion mashing. The 10 gallon MLT may be bigger, but it's much more functional in more settings.

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Yoop, your numbers are off.....I already gave the numbers that I've been getting and using the last 5 years as per the Green Bay Racker's calculaty

At 1.25 it actually holds nearly 13 pounds of grain. Since most of my grainbills run between 10 and 14 pounds, I have no problem. for 14 pounds I just use about a 1.15 quarts/pound mash dillution. Or for 15pounds I go with a 1 quart/gallon.

14 pounds of 2-row in a 5 gallon batch gives you a 1.076 OG so it's not a small beer.

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I never have missed my target numbers, in fact with my new barley crushers I'm getting into the 80's in effiency.....

Well there you have it - Revvy, who claims to have ****ed up more beer than most of us have made fiercly defends his 5 gallon while Yooper, who needs no introductions, loves her big 10. Obviously the choice is yours

Wow, thanks for all the input! However, I'm even more confused now after reading all this.

I have zero plans to brew anything larger than 5 gallons. Space really isn't too much of an issue, but cost is right now since I have to purchase a bigger brew pot and wort chiller.

My only concern would be keeping my mash temps steady.

Is mashing out similiar to sparging?

s2cmpugh said:

I have zero plans to brew anything larger than 5 gallons. Space really isn't too much of an issue, but cost is right now since I have to purchase a bigger brew pot and wort chiller.

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Well it's not just the batch size. If you want to brew a higher gravity beer at some point the extra space is nice to have.

That said all I can additionally point out is that you're saying you have to order a bigger kettle... so part of the point is why not go a little larger and not have to buy again later? But if the money is that much an issue than go with the 5 gallon MLT. Looking up Rubbermaid coolers online I can see you will be saving about ~$30 going with the smaller one. So if $30 is something to take into consideration that you already have you answer.


Rev.

Revvy said:

Yoop, your numbers are off.....I already gave the numbers that I've been getting and using the last 5 years as per the Green Bay Racker's calculaty



I never have missed my target numbers, in fact with my new barley crushers I'm getting into the 80's in effiency.....

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I don't know about your numbers, but with my 72% efficiency, I'm limited to 1.065 beers with my 5 gallon MLT. I have a purchased false bottom, with the traditional ball valve.

I made EdWort's robust porter with my 5 gal MT. That was as much grain as I could possibly fit into a 5 gal round.

11# 2 Row
1# Chocolate Malt
1# Crystal 40
4 oz. Black Patent
1 oz. Roasted Barley
8 oz. Flaked Barley

Although I did only use 10# 2 row. No false bottom, a round SS strainer (I'm assuming this is the "bazooka" ChickenHops was talking about), and a hair above 85% mash efficiency. OG of 1.074.

Now, if I had missed my temps and needed to add water, I would have been SOL.

If the head space is a concern, buy a chunk of hard poly insulation and cut it to fit the ID of the cooler. Then you can at least minimize the dead space with some rigid insulation (my project for this week - temp monitoring with the hard insulation and a 10 gal cooler)

I like both the 5 and 10 gal. If you just had to choose one, go with the 10 gal for flexibility.

macleod319 said:

If the head space is a concern, buy a chunk of hard poly insulation and cut it to fit the ID of the cooler. Then you can at least minimize the dead space with some rigid insulation

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Is the concern of the extra head space about maintaining the temps? If so, I've had zero problems maintaining the temps on all my standard gravity brews (9 - 10.5lbs of grain so far) perfectly. Over an hour I haven't lost more than 1 degree of temperature in my 10 gallon MLT.


Rev.

one thing about the chiller, if you can at all try and get the funds for a plate chiller, a little filtration and some high temp hose and you can chill REALLY FAST (10 gallons in like 5 minutes with my 40 plate, a 60 plate could probably do it in 3 minutes ish!!!)

s2cmpugh said:

I have zero plans to brew anything larger than 5 gallons.

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Famous last words. Neither did I. Neither did almost anyone that started out brewing 5 gallons. Remember- you can make small batches and small beers with the bigger cooler. But you can't make bigger batches and bigger beers with the smaller cooler. If you get the bigger one right away, you keep your options open, and you won't wind up with a five-gallon paperweight if/when you go big.

I started out with the 15 gallon and glad I did because I interested in no sparge brewing and those big beers even 5 gallon ones require some room.

s2cmpugh said:

Is mashing out similiar to sparging?

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You really won't be "mashing out" with this set up(unless you have a heat stick?). You will just drain the MT, then batch sparge. I know some people fly sparge with this but I'm not sure how, since you can't heat the tun without an element. I dunno, I have a 10 gallon cooler and I just drain, add my sparge water, stir, let it sit 10 minutes and drain. I get about 75% efficiency.

AIB is a great place to buy legal 15.5 gallon keggles, I bought 3 and glad I did, worth every penny ! I brew 5 gal AG and there false bottom rocks !:rockin:

s2cmpugh said:

Is mashing out similiar to sparging?

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Mashing out is the first step of lautering if you choose to do so. Lautering is simply removing the wort from the grain. Sparging is the last step of lautering. I fly sparge because I have found that this rinsing improves efficiency and is fairly consistent between batches.

I just recently starting mashing out to improve consistency in my malt profile. If you have a relatively thick mash, you can add ~2 gallons of boiling water to bring the temp to around 168-170 F. This benefits you in a number of ways

- you cease enzymatic activity because you denature the proteins responsible for the conversion

- the mash will become more fluid and your extraction will be more efficient

-this allows you to fly sparge without much worry about losing temp because you raised the temp considerably to buffer yourself, and you have stopped the conversion

So currently, I mash out for about 10 min, then I fly sparge. This technique can't be done in a 5 gallon cooler if making 5 gallons.

Hope this helps.

Go with the ten gallon. You will reget have a 5 gallon mash tun!!!!

Bernie Brewer said:

Famous last words. Neither did I. Neither did almost anyone that started out brewing 5 gallons. Remember- you can make small batches and small beers with the bigger cooler. But you can't make bigger batches and bigger beers with the smaller cooler. If you get the bigger one right away, you keep your options open, and you won't wind up with a five-gallon paperweight if/when you go big.

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I think Alistair Sims wins the thread.

Unless $30 really is a huge deal, 10 gallons will prove more useful in the long run. In fact, it will prove so useful, in my mind, that you'd be better off waiting a little while longer to switch to AG. You can either spend $30 less now on a 5 gallon, and then buy a 10 gallon later, or you can get the money together, make one good purchase, and never really need to upgrade again.

IMO, $30 more for an incredible amount of flexibility is a fantastic deal. But then again, I'm the guy who just bought a 100 qt monster Igloo off of Craigslist, so take that with a grain of salt.

macleod319 said:

Now, if I had missed my temps and needed to add water, I would have been SOL..

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If my MT is nearly full and I miss my mashing temp it's no big deal. I remove some mash and add water to adjust the temp. Or I'll heat up what I removed and add it back. (I use a hot plate and 2 gallon kettle that I use to prepare starters for that. I could use my BK, but the starter kettle is convenient).

It's rare that I have to adjust temps. I know what my strike temp needs to be and I'm careful to get the water right before I add any grain. I've made over 30 batches this year and I'm very consistent in what I do. I only adjust the strike temp slightly to account for variations in grain.

It's no different that if I had a bigger tun, except that if I remove wort I don't add it back until vorlauf. In that case it's never much and it converts just like the mash in the tun. I only recall doing that once.

This may sound crazy but I like the way the grain bed sets up in the smaller diameter 5 gallon cooler. I batch sparge. I get good efficiency. I've also been working this past year on making the clearest beers I can. I don't know if my mashing tun has anything to do with it, but I've improved clarity quite a bit. I'm reluctant to change any equipment, which would mean a process change, at this point.

I started with a 10 gallon. Found myself doing some ten gallon batches of bigger beers and ended up borrowing a buddies 10 gallon and doing to separate mashes with a combined boil. My point being that while all those who have posted have brewed far more than me, I would not recommend under 10 gallon. I will likely be building a larger one just so I can do 10 gallon batches and single batch sparges. Yet, if money is a concern and you plan on staying at five gallon batches, then the 5 gallon should suffice. If/when you progress and start doing more, you can always give the 5 gallon mash tun away during the December "Pay it Forward."

I have a 7 gallon round Rubbermaid Gatorade cooler that works perfectly. Brand new they can be expensive ($50-60), but I have seen used ones on ebay and craigslist for $20. I am surprised more people dont go this route instead of debating between 5 and 10 gallon coolers.

Thanks for all the support and suggestions and I certainly didn't intend to start an argument between people.

Couple questions, what is the difference between (regular) sparging, batch sparging, and fly sparging? I was under the impression that sparging was basically "rinsing" the mashed grains with water roughly at 170F for 10 mins. then draining it out into your kettle that already contains the first runnings?

Good suggestion on going used and I think I might purchase a false bottom to make things easier and less messy!

Basically anytime a vs. thread is started you're going to see this.

s2cmpugh said:

Thanks for all the support and suggestions and I certainly didn't intend to start an argument between people.

Couple questions, what is the difference between (regular) sparging, batch sparging, and fly sparging? I was under the impression that sparging was basically "rinsing" the mashed grains with water roughly at 170F for 10 mins. then draining it out into your kettle that already contains the first runnings?

Good suggestion on going used and I think I might purchase a false bottom to make things easier and less messy!

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Save yourself some $$ and skip the false bottom - then put that money towards the 10 gallon cooler. You can make a manifold out of CPVC pipe for less than 5 bucks. Search for the directions on HBT.

s2cmpugh said:

Couple questions, what is the difference between (regular) sparging, batch sparging, and fly sparging?

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There's batch sparge, fly sparge, and no sparge - don't know of any "regular" sparge. But put simply:

No sparging is just that - you use more grains countering for the loss of sugars by not sparging

Batch sparging - after draining off your first runnings you add sparge water (dependent on how many sparges you plan to do meaning 1, 2, 3, etc). So let's say we do a double batch sparge like I do currently: I drain the first runnings then add the first batch sparge water, say for this example 2 gallons of sparge water, stir it up, let it sit for 5 minutes or so, then vorlauf which is to clear your running of particulate matter, then drain into the kettle that has your first runnings. After all the liquid is drained you add the second addition of sparge water, stir, wait 5 minutes or so, then vorlauf and drain again into your kettle. At the end you have your full preboil volume.

Fly sparging - you use another vessel (typically called a hot liquor tank) that contains your hot sparge water. From that vessel, usually elevated over the mash tun so it can gravity drain, you slowly trickle the water evenly over the grain bed to rinse the grains. This typically takes a longer amount of time as it's a slower flow. As that is going on you are also slowly draining the mash tun into the boil kettle as you want to be sure with this method that you keep about 1/2" or so of water consistently over the top of the grain bed. You basically don't want the grain bed going dry or draining faster than the addition of sparge water. You vorlauf as well with fly sparging but if I recall it's a one time thing since afterward the sparge is a constant flow.

That's a rough description so if I missed anything or messed up any info cut me some slack


Rev.

Go with the bigger cooler.

I started out with a 7 gal and ended up moving up to a 10 after changing to 7 gal batches.

Unless you're dead set on a round cooler, rectangular ones can be had a lot cheaper. Igloo's ice cube is a great cooler for the money. I see these 48 qts for $30 at Academy all the time