primary in a bucket - no airlock?

Just came back from a friend's place after making our first batch.

He told me he had carboys and airlocks but when I got there they were tiny plastic carboys - 19L I think and we were brewing a 23 L batch. So he decided to use his bucket as his primary.

Only thing is that his bucket is just bucket with lid. No airlock. There is lots of headspace in the bucket but I am wondering if a lack of airlock will have an effect?

thanks
-Taco

For now just put the lid on loose and the CO2 produced will keep the air out. You can rig a blow off hose tomorrow. Make sure that everything that touches the beer is sanitized. If it has a hole in the lid just cover it with something that will not move. The beer will turn out fine.

thanks for the answer but to get it straight is he required to hook up a blow off hose or can he just ride it out?

Would another option be to cut a hole in the lid and put in a stopper and airlock? He has a number of stoppers and airlocks for some reason.

TacoGuthrie said:

thanks for the answer but to get it straight is he required to hook up a blow off hose or can he just ride it out?

Would another option be to cut a hole in the lid and put in a stopper and airlock? He has a number of stoppers and airlocks for some reason.

Click to expand...

I dont know if required is the right word as I have no idea what your krausen will be like or how much headspace you have but I can tell that I have never heard of anyone brewing in a bucket without a blow off or airlock.. I would think it would be necessary just to blow some of those nasty smelling gasses and what not during an active ferm... Defnitely install an airlock.. It only takes a second and better safe than sorry

I would put on an air lock then because after the first few days the CO2 will slow down and so it should be properly sealed to prevent any drafts of air from blowing particles under the loose lid. If you were to seal the lid without any air lock it would blow off the bucket during middle of the night and scare you.

thanks for the help you two.

He seems to think the lid was 'loose enough' that gases could get out but I doubted that.

I will tell him to cut a hole in the lid and put in one of his stoppers and airlock.

Beer has only been made in closed vessels for a short time span... old school beer was all open fermented. Some Belgian and German beers are still open fermented today (and spontaneously fermented). I would just leave the lid on loosely until an airlock of some sorts can be rigged up. Granted, beer can be made open, you'll have a more controlled fermentation closed.

I have fermented like this, both professionally and at home, since about 1994/5. Sealing buckets is a PITA - in the first place, they don't seal very well at all. In the second, getting the ^#$!! lid off again is frustrating.

I call what I do "open fermentation" though it really isn't. My setup uses squares of 1/4" clear Plexiglas to cover the mouth of the bucket. The bucket is totally covered, positive pressure can escape, and I can see what's going on. You can mimic this by simply placing a piece of clear packing tape over the hole & grommet in your LHBS-supplied bucket lid.

Drafts carrying particles in...what a hoot. That's the most amusing piece of homebrewer worrying-over-something-remarkably-silly I've ever heard. Nothing can get under that lid, unless a strong enough "draft" comes along to lift the lid and deposit something into your ferment. If your fermenter is in an inside room, don't worry about it. If you've been so n00by or boneheaded to place your fermenter on your front porch in a gale, or in a wind tunnel, put it someplace cool and dark and quiet like you're supposed to do. Tell you what - do an experiment. Lay a lid loosely on a bucket, get on the floor, and blow upwards. Or try a hair dryer on 'high'. If the lid doesn't move, don't worry about it.

Even if something does get inside, the contaminant has to be able to live in an extremely hostile environment - the layers of carbon dioxide gas and kraeusen on the beer serve as a pretty effective protective shield. You just need a cover to keep dust and critters from falling onto the shield.

The advice about not sealing the bucket if the lid doesn't have an airlock is good, though!

No need to cut anything, Guthrie. Just tell him to keep a close eye on the ferment. When the krauesen falls after the primary vigorous ferment is over, it might make him feel better to rack it to a closed vessel like a carboy, but even that's not necessary. Like I said, I've been fermenting this way for a long, long time, and I haven't had an infection since I learned how to chemically sanitize my stuff. Of course, it does presuppose that once you get the lid on you don't muck about in the fermenter.

The only difference between my semi-open method and a carboy is the size of the opening in the top of the vessel. A bucket's is larger than a carboy's. That's it! There's no more or less control inherent in either method. Gas can devolve, nothing extraneous can get in. Pretty simple.

Cheers, all!

Bob

Edit: I wish to apologize for the tone of the above. I was trying to be funny, taking the mickey about the whole 'breeze in the bucket' thing. Epic fail.

I just made an IPA that I left in the Primary bucket with the Lid just laying on top.. I normally rack to a Secondary abit earlier then normal. I wait until the krausen starts to settle back down from it's highest point.
This way the beer is still protected from the air, and there's still abit of fermenting going on. So when you rack to the Secondary the CO2 will push out the remaining air. I still haven't tasted the beer yet it's been in the Secondary for about 1 month now and I'll probably Keg it within a couple weeks.

If you leave the lid sealed without an airlock you can cause excess acidity (a too-low pH reading) and the gas-producing bacteria will not be able to digest the acids quickly enough. Decomposition will stop until balance is re- stored by the growth of more bacteria. If the pH grows too high (not enough acid), fermentation will slow until the digestive process forms enough acidic carbon dioxide to restore balance.

It can also blow of the lid, depending on how active the fermentation is, I also have heard that the beer will not clear properly

My first batch, I transferred to second stage after 4 days in an 'open primary' - as the directions called for when the foam dropped off.

My second batch:
I just left a batch in my 'open primary' for the first 2 weeks. It's a snap on lid on a big bucket. Not air tight. I just transferred to 2nd stage so I can see when it clears, for about another 2 weeks.

I noticed when I was transferring to 2nd stage, the yeast was growing nicely on the bottom - it was not settled yeast, it was growing yeast colonies, circular clumps. - and still active, as I could see CO2 bubbles rising. so 2 weeks in the primary, the yeast is still very active on the bottom.

I'll compare batch 1 and batch 2 when batch 2 shapes up in about 5 more weeks.

I think you pulled it WAY too fast. You can get some taste issues (acetaldehyde/green apples) from removing the beer from the cake prematurely.

None of my buckets have sealed lids. I just put them on and snap them about halfway around and let the rest be. This way my cats can't knock them off and fall in my beer.

I know people who ferment wine in a bucket by covering the bucket with a sheet of clear plastic held on by a bungee elastic. Positive pressure can escape, but nothing gets in.

Thanks for all the great posts everyone.

I've linked him to this thread and I think I will let him make the decision on this one as there are a few different opinions expressed in the thread.

I suspect he won't want to cut a hole in his bucket lid. Especially because the fermentation has already begun. also, there was plenty of headspace in the bucket and I should also mention it wasn't one of those buckets with a tight fitting lid that have to practically punch to close it.

Another question: the plan was to move from primary to bottle conditioning. Does anyone see any reason to abandon ship on that plan here?