I thought All Grain was cheaper??!!

I finally got everything together to start brewing AG and did my first batch last week. It went pretty smooth and I think things are going well thus far. So I decided I was going to start looking at what my next few beers would be and began browsing Norther Brewer's site. Then I started noticing that the prices for AG kits seemed higher than I thought they should be.

I started comparing and in many cases the extract kits were the same price as the AG kits!!! and in a few cases the AG were more expensive! I went back and looked at an old catalouge and the prices have definitely changed. This was REALLY dissappointing because half the reason I got into AG was so that I could afford to start brewing more often.

Has anyone else noticed this? and is it making it harder on anyone else? If so how are you all dealing with the price increase? I could really use some money saving advice as far as buying AG ingredients. Please help! Please refrain from telling me how much fresher AG will be... because though I might appreciate this, it will get me nowhere in explaining to the wife why I now spend 5-6 hours brewing a beer. :cross:

You need to shop elsewhere, ALL of AHS all grain kits are cheaper than extract. You will also save buy buying in bulk where possible.

Don't buy kits.....I go to my lhbs's with a recipe and get what I need. Of course I have a freezer full of hops and usually a back log of yeast (I pick up extra hops and yeast whenever I'm there) so most of the time I'm just buying my grain. But even when I am buying a couple ounces of hops and some yeast it's about 20.00 for a batch of beer, maybe 25.00

You can also buy bulk grain as well. Our last bulk buy iirc it came down to about 35 bucks for a 55 pound sack of 2-row.

If you are buying kits, imho, you're ending up paying a huge markup.

shop around, you will discover. Also look into buying in bulk but that would require more money by buying a grain crusher etc... unless you want to use a rolling pin, but then you will have to pay your medical bills when you get carpel-tunnel so it is a lose lose situation.

Places that have deals on shipping have to bake it into their prices, and NB is no exception. An AG kit is simply larger and likely heavier.

As WW mentioned, you won't truly start saving until you buy bulk grain.

Hopsdirect.com

Thanks for the fast response all! So I need to buy in bulk... any ideas on where from? I live in Northern, VA. I've been trying to keep my eye open for good bulk prices but haven't found anything yet that's made me look twice.
I only know one other guy that brews AG, I guess I should try to get him to go in on some.

As far as buying everything in bulk goes, do you all have any series of brews that you generally like to do that use similar ingredients? rrr... let me clarify if I can. Do you ever buy, for example, 5 different types of grain and 3 different types of hops in bulk, and maybe use one packet of Liquid yeast(re-harvesting as you go) to brew a couple different batches of beer that all just use different amounts of those ingredients. I hope that makes sense, because it seems like that would be the way to go as far as saving cash.

Thanks again!

Yah, bulk is good... should be able to brew 5 gallons of almost anything for less than $20

I started doing AG about a year ago.

I buy hops in bulk from hopsdirect.com
I buy a 55# sack of 2-row for $42
I buy 7# of various grains like Munich, Vienna, Crystal, etc
I buy 2# or so of grain that I don't use much of.
I use dry yeast that costs $1.50 a pack

ANother vote for buying in Bulk. My LHBS has 55lb bags of American 2 row for $60.00. I get the same bag of Grain from my Homebrew Club (4 times a year we do a Bulk/Hop Buy) for $28.00. Do the math and you will soon see that brewing all grain is cheaper.

Several ways to make all grain brewing less expensive per glass.

1.) Purchase a grain mill so you can buy your workhorse malts like pale, pilsner and wheat in sacks. Find what specialty malts you use most and buy in bulk.

2.) Wash yeast strains that you use frequently so you don't always have to buy new cultures.

3.) Grow your own hops or purchase in bulk.

4.) Look for sales and go in on group buys.

I order the grain and yeast for numerous batches at a time from brewmasters warehouse and order hops from freshops.com in larger quantities. My avg price per batch including shipping is 20-25$.

pnj said:

I started doing AG about a year ago.
I use dry yeast that costs $1.50 a pack

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US-05 is up to around $3.75 a pack.

What yeast do you use?

I have never purchased an AG kit either online or from the LHBS. I brew from recipes. I keep uncrushed bulk base malt on hand and a good selection of specialty malts in smaller amounts. Bulk hops.

Trust me, AG is much cheaper if you do it this way rather than buying a kit.

I buy all of this (except for the hops) locally. I order online and pick up the next am. No shipping and no sales tax here since grain=food.

I just did a Kolsch PM and calculated out what I spent compared to what the extract version would have cost. I figured just going from extract to PM I saved $6.00.

My LHBS has all grain kits that cost 25% more than their extract kits. At first I was wondering the exact same thing as the O.P.

Since I've found Austin Homebrew Supply online with their awesome $7.99 shipping and nice low-priced AG kits I couldn't be happier. Plus I got a few bags of grain in bulk from a not-so-local HBS. I'm thinking of getting some more grains from North Country Malts. Want to get some hops from hopsdirect.com and use a food saver on them. I started figuring out some pricing and I think I can get my cost down to about 50% of extract kits by doing AG.

BeerSmith is nice for tracking recipe costs. Once you fill in the prices you get for ingredients it pretty much nails it dead-on what your cost will be.

pnj said:

I started doing AG about a year ago.

I buy hops in bulk from hopsdirect.com
I buy a 55# sack of 2-row for $42
I buy 7# of various grains like Munich, Vienna, Crystal, etc
I buy 2# or so of grain that I don't use much of.
I use dry yeast that costs $1.50 a pack

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this x1000000

I have a hookup with a regional brewery for my bulk grain ($35 per 55lb sack). You could join a homebrew club and go in on a bulk order. Call any LHBS's in your area and ask them to quote you a price on a 55lb bag of 2 row (hopefully you'll find a quote of $50 or less).

Get a grain mill. They are pricey. I borrowed one for a couple months before purchasing my own (thank you tax return).

Hopsdirect, hopsdirect, hopsdirect. Instead of paying $3 an ounce, pay only $1 an ounce (or less).

+1 to bulk. I found a shop not too far from where I can buy base malts for $50 per 50#. I've starting washing my yeast and propagating from there. I have 5 strains on hand and it is all nearly free at this point. I buy bulk hops from hopsdirect (they are awesome), and I planted some hops last year. I brewed a pale ale yesterday and the total cost for ingredients was $14.50. Find your best deal on grains, get a mill or a friend with one (I always let my brew brew buddy stop by and use mine) wash yeast and go to hopsdirect.

Check out he MD Brewday group here. Sorry I don't have a link handy. They have a bulk grain buy a couple times per year (you just missed one). 2row is about $30/sack. When itt all arrives, its divied up by region and a bunch of it ends up in DC. Probably close enough for you to pick up.

Cookiebaggs said:

Several ways to make all grain brewing less expensive per glass.

1.) Purchase a grain mill so you can buy your workhorse malts like pale, pilsner and wheat in sacks. Find what specialty malts you use most and buy in bulk.

2.) Wash yeast strains that you use frequently so you don't always have to buy new cultures.

3.) Grow your own hops or purchase in bulk.

4.) Look for sales and go in on group buys.

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The last half of point 1 and all of 2, 3, and 4 apply to extract brewing, too. The only thing that's going to make all grain brewing cheaper is getting base grains cheaper than you can get extract. How much cheaper grain needs to be depends on your efficiency. It's not hard to do that if you're buying more than one batch's worth of grain at a time, but if you're buying batch-to-batch your cost savings from all-grain will be negligible.

If you aren't ready to buy ingredients in bulk, there are better ways to save money than going all-grain. Yeast washing has saved me far more money than going to all grain has but I'm spending somewhere in the neighborhood of $1.50/lb for grain (counting shipping) right now and my efficiency is currently 65% . If I were getting in on those $30 for a 55 lb bag group buys, I could see all-grain being a larger cost-saving factor.

That all being said, I'm now an all-grain brewer because I enjoy it. The cost savings are just an added plus.

jldc said:

US-05 is up to around $3.75 a pack.

What yeast do you use?

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Not to answer for him, BUT...

If you're paying $3.75 per pack of US-05, I think you are paying 1.25 too much. Nottingham is $1.50 at many places.

While buying in bulk is the definite answer, I understand how buying bulk grains can be a challenge. Buying hops on the other hand is easy, straightforward, and really don't go bad.

Search for corona mills, they're pretty cheap and a lot of people have had good experience w/ them. Personally I buy bulk base grain, 2 Row and MO, and buy my specialty grains from www.brewmasterswarehouse.com Washing yeast or using dry yeast is a big saver too and there's nothing wrong w/ using dry yeast.

hal2814 said:

The last half of point 1 and all of 2, 3, and 4 apply to extract brewing, too. The only thing that's going to make all grain brewing cheaper is getting base grains cheaper than you can get extract. How much cheaper grain needs to be depends on your efficiency. It's not hard to do that if you're buying more than one batch's worth of grain at a time, but if you're buying batch-to-batch your cost savings from all-grain will be negligible.

If you aren't ready to buy ingredients in bulk, there are better ways to save money than going all-grain. Yeast washing has saved me far more money than going to all grain has but I'm spending somewhere in the neighborhood of $1.50/lb for grain (counting shipping) right now and my efficiency is currently 65% . If I were getting in on those $30 for a 55 lb bag group buys, I could see all-grain being a larger cost-saving factor.

That all being said, I'm now an all-grain brewer because I enjoy it. The cost savings are just an added plus.

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Very true! An extract or PM brewer can also cut costs.

Grain by the sack, hops by the pound and dry yeast yeilds a very low bottom line.

Revvy said:

Don't buy kits.....

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/end. Buy bulk hops and grain.

HickoryMike said:

Not to answer for him, BUT...

If you're paying $3.75 per pack of US-05, I think you are paying 1.25 too much. Nottingham is $1.50 at many places.

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It's jumped recently. Perhaps your supplier hasn't turned over their inventory yet.

HickoryMike said:

Get a grain mill. They are pricey. I borrowed one for a couple months before purchasing my own (thank you tax return).

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There are plenty of people getting 80%+ efficiency with <$20 corona mills.



As to cost, AHS sells a "Northwest Pale Ale".

Prices is 33.99 for extract, 25.99 for AG, with no yeast.
The AG has 9 pounds of base, 1.25lbs of specialty.
The Extract contains 6 lbs of DME, 1.25lbs specialty, .5lbs base.
My guess is 3oz of hops.


My guess is, with bulk, you can put together that kit for somewhere in the range of $10.
9lbs 2-row @ $.67/lb =$6
1.25 [email protected]/lb = $1.85
3oz hops @ $1/oz =$3

So, we hit $10.85.


Now, my LHBS wants $50 for a bag of 2-row, $2lb for specialty, and $3oz for hops, but that still comes out about 25% less than the kits.

jldc said:

US-05 is up to around $3.75 a pack.

What yeast do you use?

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As mentioned before, danstar yeast is still about $1.50, but yeah all the fermentis products have jumped up at my lhbs too. The shop doesn't change prices often, but I didn't ask why. Its so handy to have a pack around that its worth the extra 2.25 I guess.

philrose said:

As mentioned before, danstar yeast is still about $1.50, but yeah all the fermentis products have jumped up at my lhbs too. The shop doesn't change prices often, but I didn't ask why. Its so handy to have a pack around that its worth the extra 2.25 I guess.

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Probably because they are on "probation" with most of us who suffered from their QC problems a year ago. Once they convince us they fixed the problem, they'll join the rust to jack prices.

Honestly, I think they realized they were positioned too cheaply compared to liquid and that there was not a significant quality difference. I prefer liquid, and if there is only a couple bucks difference I don't see myself using dry yeast except in emergency.

philrose said:

As mentioned before, danstar yeast is still about $1.50, but yeah all the fermentis products have jumped up at my lhbs too. The shop doesn't change prices often, but I didn't ask why. Its so handy to have a pack around that its worth the extra 2.25 I guess.

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Although US-05 and Notty are said to be similar or even identical, I've had much better results with US-05, and I have given up completely on Notty. $2 just isn't enough difference in price to risk a batch of beer, IMO.

I've been using more liquid yeast and banking some, which can reduce or eliminate any price advantage of dry anyway, especially at $3.39 which is the AHS price today.

The ingredients in all grain is cheaper, but you need to get to 15-20 batches to pay for the equipment.

I just spent nearly $150 rigging up my new 10-gallon mash tun. I could have easily spent more if I went with a false bottom. You need an extra pot for either sparge water or collecting wort, so another $50. You'll be doing bigger boils, so you need a cooling coil which will run around $50. You'll also need a turkey fryer which will run around $50. You could do CL, eBay, or do a lot of DIY, but than you're really friggin running around.

However, you get INCREDIBLE beer. Which is worth it.

petep1980 said:

The ingredients in all grain is cheaper, but you need to get to 15-20 batches to pay for the equipment.

I just spent nearly $150 rigging up my new 10-gallon mash tun. I could have easily spent more if I went with a false bottom. You need an extra pot for either sparge water or collecting wort, so another $50. You'll be doing bigger boils, so you need a cooling coil which will run around $50. You'll also need a turkey fryer which will run around $50. You could do CL, eBay, or do a lot of DIY, but than you're really friggin running around.

However, you get INCREDIBLE beer. Which is worth it.

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I needed most of those things for extract (turkey frier, chiller, etc).


And my 5g mash tun cost me about $30. Thats about 3 batches to pay back.

Synovia said:

I needed most of those things for extract (turkey frier, chiller, etc).


And my 5g mash tun cost me about $30. Thats about 3 batches to pay back.

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Let me know how many batches you get out of the 5g mash tun. Are you going to just hold the button to drain the wort while it passes over your thumb @ 150°F?

I got 2 batches out of mine.

I won't name names (since the OP already did), but your supplier is overpriced. I received a catalog from them this week and they want $3.00 for one ounce of Hops???

I had to check the date on the front to make sure it wasn't from Fall-2008.

Nope! It was current.

HELLO...THE HOPS SHORTAGE IS LONG OVER.

BTW, if you're not going to order bulk..Midwestsupplies FTW.

I've bought kits from them before...and they are good recipes for the most part.
However all of my better beers have been from recipes I've gotten off this site.
The only one I still use from NB is their non-lager oktoberfest as I don't have the equipment to lager at this time.


But even still, I get the recipe from the NB site and log on to a certain BrewBuilder and buy from there.


I still get my Fruit Puree's from NB though...I prefer them to extracts.

If you don't want to buy in bulk, which means you'll need a grain crusher, then try rebel brewer. Their prices for base malts are absurd, and they will crush them for you. I order base malts from them, hops from hopsdirect, and go to LhBS for any specialty malts and yeast that I might need.

The most expensive part of my AG setup was the turkey fryer at about $50. My 48qt mash tun and my chiller were about $30 in parts each. My 10 gal and two 5 gallon aluminum pots were about $40 all together. AG doesn't have to cost a fortune to get into. I'm sure someone could pick apart the shortcomings of some of my equipment, but I get excellent beer every time. I'm still fairly new to brewing, so I'm sure I'll upgrade stuff over the years.

BierMuncher said:

HELLO...THE HOPS SHORTAGE IS LONG OVER.

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tell that to commercial distributors.

dead guy is $11/6. i can't find much really that's under $8/6.

n-b's hop prices are a bit ridiculous, imo. i understand packaging/cooling/shipping costs, but come on....$3 an ounce??

petep1980 said:

Let me know how many batches you get out of the 5g mash tun. Are you going to just hold the button to drain the wort while it passes over your thumb @ 150°F?

I got 2 batches out of mine.

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Umm, no, mine has a brass ball valve. The cooler was 12.99.(home depot 5g igloo)

I've done maybe 15 batches in it.

petep1980 said:

Let me know how many batches you get out of the 5g mash tun. Are you going to just hold the button to drain the wort while it passes over your thumb @ 150°F?

I got 2 batches out of mine.

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There's more than one way to skin a cat. I use an unmodified 5 gallon Igloo cooler, a paint strainer bag, and a colander for an MLT. Grain is mashed in a bag in the cooler. When the mash is over, I lift the bag out and set it on the colander that's sitting over the cooler. When I collect all the runnings, I pour them into my ale pail and sparge. 18 batches in and so far, so good. I can comfortably hold 12 lbs of grain in this setup. Since I already had the cooler and the colander, my total cost for moving to all-grain was $3. And once again, this isn't meant to be a urinating contest. It's just an example of going to an all-grain setup without spending a lot of money.