Brew & a few bonus shots!

brweputer:


some Weyerbacher 12 to be cellared:


Gotta get your bottles from somewhere


more to come...

Hey, Belgian strong ale in the primary:


Let's get it on!!!


Fuggles ready for a swim:


Mashing in:

first sparge:


wort in the kettle


Heck ya:

Frothy forbidden wort:

Damn tool. You make me want to skip work and brew. Blast!

brewt00l said:

first sparge:

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Looks good.
You may want to consider running some tubing out of that port into your kettle when sparging to avoid the possibility of hot side aeration.

Glibbidy said:

Looks good.
You may want to consider running some tubing out of that port into your kettle when sparging to avoid the possibility of hot side aeration.

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I've always wondered about that. Is hot side aeration an issue BEFORE the boil? Wouldn't the boil de-oxygenate the wort, thus removing any oxygen that was absorbed during the drain/sparge? I use a tube myself, just curious.

Glibbidy said:

Looks good.
You may want to consider running some tubing out of that port into your kettle when sparging to avoid the possibility of hot side aeration.

Click to expand...

I have thought about it...typically the kettle is right up under the valve but it wasn't very photogenic

Edit: here is a BYO mr wizard article where he mentions wort splashing as a potential source of hot side aeration:
http://byo.com/mrwizard/897.html

Evan! said:

Damn tool. You make me want to skip work and brew. Blast!

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LOL these photos make me want to clean up the basement :fro:

why I'm stuck sitting at a clients house running chkdsk, I could have been home and brewing

Nice pics BTW!

Evan! said:

I've always wondered about that. Is hot side aeration an issue BEFORE the boil? Wouldn't the boil de-oxygenate the wort, thus removing any oxygen that was absorbed during the drain/sparge? I use a tube myself, just curious.

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Palmer has researched this for homebrewers, and he cautions that HSA could be more of an issue before the boil than during the boil. But I think he was actually most concerned with oxygenation during the mash (particularly at lower temps).

To be safe, I think adding a bit of tubing would be worth the effort.

Ya know, I was wondering why I always had that off flavor till I found out you shouldn't use a Paint Mixer attachment on the drill to stir the pot.

brewt00l said:

LOL these photos make me want to clean up the basement :fro:

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Atleast you have room in your garage! Nice pics!

By the way I would get a tube to put on it too, just so you won't splash and lose some of that sweet wort.

Thanks for the pic comments!

Like I mentioned previously, this sparge setup was for taking pics and typically the kettle is right up under the valve (and was for the majority of the sparge). I will be curious to see what effect if any this has on the finished product but I suspect it will not. If I wind up with some cardboardy porter, I will know why

any aeration is not desirable, even on the hot side before the boil.

I just thought I would quote what Palmer has to say about splashing the hot wort before the boil.

John Palmer said:

Once the wort has cleared, drain the wort carefully into your boiling pot. Fill the pot slowly at first and allow the level to cover the outlet tube. Be sure to have a long enough tube so that the wort enters below the surface and does not splash. The splashing of hot wort before the boil can cause long term oxidation damage to the flavor of the beer.

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We shall see...I will have to keep a few bottles around for a while longer than usual just to see if any off flavors develop in longer term storage due to a 'lil bit of splashing for that pic. Personally, I still suspect that it wont be an issue in this circumstance but time will tell.

In a similar vein, I bottled my Belgian golden strong ale yesterday and intentionally aerated two bottles...on marked and one not marked just to see how noticeable the effects of oxidation become.

Edit: Has anyone actually experienced HSA? If so, when did it become noticible?

brewt00l said:

LOL these photos make me want to clean up the basement :fro:

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Ha, they make me want to move to a place that actually has basements! Nice cool basements, where my various hobbies not fit for above ground practice can be honed and refined. I'm stuck here in L.A., the land of the tract house slab.

I'm a basement kind of guy, living in a slab world.

Glibbidy said:

Looks good.
You may want to consider running some tubing out of that port into your kettle when sparging to avoid the possibility of hot side aeration.

Click to expand...

FlyGuy said:

Palmer has researched this for homebrewers, and he cautions that HSA could be more of an issue before the boil than during the boil. But I think he was actually most concerned with oxygenation during the mash (particularly at lower temps).

To be safe, I think adding a bit of tubing would be worth the effort.

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boiler up said:

any aeration is not desirable, even on the hot side before the boil.

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johnsma22 said:

I just thought I would quote what Palmer has to say about splashing the hot wort before the boil.

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When should I be able to see the ill effects of any potential HSA? I am going to keep some of this batch around long enough to test this theory.

BlindLemonLars said:

Ha, they make me want to move to a place that actually has basements! Nice cool basements, where my various hobbies not fit for above ground practice can be honed and refined. I'm stuck here in L.A., the land of the tract house slab.

I'm a basement kind of guy, living in a slab world.

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I will tell you one thing, the basement is far superior to my previous brew closet :fro:

brewt00l said:

When should I be able to see the ill effects of any potential HSA? I am going to keep some of this batch around long enough to test this theory.

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Well, you might never. HSA only puts you AT RISK of off flavours. It doesn't necessarily produce them.

You are at greater risk if you store your beers for lengthy periods of time and at warmer/fluctuating temperatures. It also depends on how much yeast you have in your bottles and how active they stay -- yeast are great oxygen scavengers. Cooling then warming then cooling then warming your bottles will drop the yeast out of suspension and set up conditions ripe for oxidation.

FlyGuy said:

Well, you might never. HSA only puts you AT RISK of off flavours. It doesn't necessarily produce them.

You are at greater risk if you store your beers for lengthy periods of time and at warmer/fluctuating temperatures. It also depends on how much yeast you have in your bottles and how active they stay -- yeast are great oxygen scavengers. Cooling then warming then cooling then warming your bottles will drop the yeast out of suspension and set up conditions ripe for oxidation.

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Have you experienced HSA?

someone has to have experienced HSA effects first hand......

I've never experienced it first hand. I have also never eaten poo, but I trust that it tastes bad. Too many well respected brewers are concerned about HSA for me to dismiss it just because I haven't experienced it.

I expect the reason that you won't find too many people here that have experienced it first hand is because when they were learning about brewing they took the warnings about HSA seriously from those who they were learning from.

johnsma22 said:

...I have also never eaten poo, but I trust that it tastes bad.

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I don’t know… That’s an awful big assumption…

Nice pics, but when you said "& bonus" I was hoping for Jester's Brewbabe style bonus... I guess I was a bit optimistic!

johnsma22 said:

I've never experienced it first hand. I have also never eaten poo, but I trust that it tastes bad. Too many well respected brewers are concerned about HSA for me to dismiss it just because I haven't experienced it.

I expect the reason that you won't find too many people here that have experienced it first hand is because when they were learning about brewing they took the warnings about HSA seriously from those who they were learning from.

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Dismiss? Not at all. I like to have information and experience to guide my decision if possible. When it comes to evaluating the advice of others knowing if they are relating their experience or something they have read from another source is fairly big factor to me. Given the number of warnings in this thread, I would like to know how many have actually experienced negative HSA effects and what the risk exposure actually is. The major point being that if I can induce these negative effects & experience the results, then I gain a better understanding of the problem.

On HSA I have found plenty of conflicting information and opinion but next to zero firsthand experience. Basic brewing has done some experiments and IIRC, were not able to introduce the negative effects with out some major aeration. I want to go back and review these podcasts in the next few days:
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=60

If you need someone to tell you not to eat poo, that's a whole nother problem.

Brewing Clamper said:

Nice pics, but when you said "& bonus" I was hoping for Jester's Brewbabe style bonus... I guess I was a bit optimistic!

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I think that my brewbabe would likely object to posting her picture on an intarweb forum

brewt00l said:

Have you experienced HSA?

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Nope. But I am also cautious not to oxidize my wort.

HSA is probably an over-rated problem in homebrewing. However, it is also one easily avoided so why take the chance.

FlyGuy said:

Nope. But I am also cautious not to oxidize my wort.

HSA is probably an over-rated problem in homebrewing. However, it is also one easily avoided so why take the chance.

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That depends...are you really doing enough to avoid it? I have read articles that recommend not stiring the wort and filling your mash tun via a fill tube from the bottom up along with not recirculating wort but disposing of the early runnings.

Palmer, in the BB podcast, suggests that HSA might actually only occur at dough-in/early mash due to lipoxygenase that is only present at that time & denatured at scarification temps.

Of course I have also seen a number of resources that suggest HSA is not an issue for the typical homebrewer and the results of the BB experiments.

brewt00l said:

Palmer, in the BB podcast, suggests that HSA might actually only occur at dough-in/early mash due to lipoxygenase that is only present at that time & denatured at scarification temps.

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Btw, the implication of this being that if you dough-in at 130F or above, you have already avoided the risk of HSA.

hmmmm..With 1000+ views I would have expected a little more conversation on the BB podcast experiments or Palmer's comments on lipoxygenase. FWIW, I plan on keeping at least a bottle or two of this porter batch in excess of 8 months just to see if anything develops..however based on everything that I have found on the topic, it is unlikely.

I was thinking about what I could do with my Stone IPA clone that I have to move to the secondary this weekend for some more interesting experiments but I hate the thought of wasting any of that brew!

I was listening to a Basic Brewing Radio interview with Charlie Papazian and he said that he thinks the HSA is one of the biggest myths in homebrewing. He said his mashing lautering process produces a lot of aeration and he has never had a problem. He also said he sometimes adds a teaspoon of cinnamon to the mash to act as an antioxidant. After listening to that its not like I splashing my wort all over the place, but I don't cry if I get some aeration.

Just to keep things fresh and ...

1 week in the primary, us05 - Stone IPA



mmmmmmm...hops, 2 oz Centennial dry hopping the Stone
(yes, the cap and lock are off...gotta get it all in there somehow )

brewt00l said:

Just to keep things fresh and ...

1 week in the primary, us05 - Stone IPA
mmmmmmm...hops, 2 oz Centennial dry hopping the Stone
(yes, the cap and lock are off...gotta get it all in there somehow )

Click to expand...

Looking good. Did you taste it yet? How's it coming along?

Beerrific said:

I was listening to a Basic Brewing Radio interview with Charlie Papazian and he said that he thinks the HSA is one of the biggest myths in homebrewing. He said his mashing lautering process produces a lot of aeration and he has never had a problem. He also said he sometimes adds a teaspoon of cinnamon to the mash to act as an antioxidant. After listening to that its not like I splashing my wort all over the place, but I don't cry if I get some aeration.

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Myth is an interesting term to use in this discussion. On one hand, it does trivialize the concept but it does describe the majority of brewers experience with HSA. IIRC the complete joy of homebrewing even includes brewing instructions that result in definite aeration of the hot wort. I have read his comment about the cinnamon before and wondered if there was any basis to its antioxidant properties when used that way...

The lipoxygenase angle that Palmer discusses in the one podcast is rather interesting as a possible explanation for the results of their testing and why many brewers have never experienced a negative side effect from HSA when using typical brewing techniques, esp batch sparging.

RichBrewer said:

Looking good. Did you taste it yet? How's it coming along?

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I seriously considered pouring pints right from the primary after I tasted the hydro sample!

Edit: Though I did have a new beer for tasting chilling in the fridge to provide restraint. Haand Bryggeriet Norwegian Wood. Quite interesting and balanced considering the smoke and juniper berries.

Follow up:

Porter is a fantastic brew...just the right balance of flavors with out being too sweet like many of the micro us porters of late. I might try to make one close to a Fullers London porter (on nitro draught is an amazingly good beer) with that lovely black treacle flavor in the finish.

The Stone clone is flat out wicked. I may make a couple tweaks to the recipe and turn it into my haus brew.

Evan! said:

I've always wondered about that. Is hot side aeration an issue BEFORE the boil? Wouldn't the boil de-oxygenate the wort, thus removing any oxygen that was absorbed during the drain/sparge? I use a tube myself, just curious.

Click to expand...

When you add oxygen to hot wort it changes the molecular structure of the wort and it will follow through to the final brew. Boiling will rid your wort of oxygen, but not of the oxygenated wort compounds.

boo boo said:

When you add oxygen to hot wort it changes the molecular structure of the wort and it will follow through to the final brew. Boiling will rid your wort of oxygen, but not of the oxygenated wort compounds.

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Depends....did you see all the follow discussion after the quoted post?