Brewing First Beer.... Something's Not Right

Ok, so I currently have my beer in my plastic carboy. When I was at the brew store today, the lady working there gave me a crash course on how the process is done. I had bought a kit, and she gave me a second packet of yeast and told me to use both, that the stronger yeast will eat the weaker yeast and speed up fermentation. She also gave me a sheet with simple directions on it. I followed the directions and everything seemed to go well. That was.... until about 30mins after I had finished. I've read that fermentation would take 2-3 days to begin. Well I looked at my carboy and I saw foam. Not just a little bit, but enough to start creeping up the neck of the carboy. About 10mins later, I looked back at it and had to jump up. The foam had traveled up the neck, thru my airlock and was mushrooming out of the top. I grabbed a towel and began wiping the foam off the top, but that just seemed to make it foam even more. So I put my carboy in my bathtub and took the airlock off. I could actually watch the foam creep out of the top (like those black ash snake fireworks). I figured I would let it sit for a while and the foaming would stop. I let it sit for 40 mins, and the foam still crept out of the top. So I went ahead and put my airlock back on. Now, about an hour and a half later, I checked on it, and there was a tower of foam coming off of the top of my carboy. I blew it off and noticed that foam is STILL creeping out of the top. My friend (who I got my equipment from) says that there is too much yeast in it. But wouldn't the shopkeep who gave me the extra yeast have known what was going to happen?

Anyway, I'm just goin to let my carboy sit in my tub overnight and see what happens.... will this have any affect on my final product?

She probaly gave you the two yeats packet one for fermenting one for bottling. No big just wait till she slows down then clean and sanitize the airlock and replace it.

How big is your carboy? I use a 6.5 gal bucket for a primary for a 5 gal batch to leave some headspace for foam. If your carboy was 5 gal, and you filled it up I dont think that would be too good....Maybe a blow-off hose next time? I have never used one, but lots of people do...

Ya, it's a 5 gallon plastic carboy (like the water jugs for the water coolers). I filled it to the top of the bigger area (where it begins to taper off toward the neck). It's still foaming. Hopefully by morning it will have stopped.

And no, she told me to use both packets "the stronger yeast will eat the weaker yest, and that will speed up fermentation" is what she said.

It's been said before but RDWHAHB. My first brew foamed out of the airlock just like yours. It lasted about 12 hours or so and then slowed down. Bottled mine yesterday and all was well. Yours may take a little longer to calm down, but it will be fine. Though you may want to move your carboy to somewhere that can stand a little beer on the ceiling.

Cheers

Towers said:

Ya, it's a 5 gallon plastic carboy (like the water jugs for the water coolers). I filled it to the top of the bigger area (where it begins to taper off toward the neck). It's still foaming. Hopefully by morning it will have stopped.

And no, she told me to use both packets "the stronger yeast will eat the weaker yest, and that will speed up fermentation" is what she said.

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Well, you have fermentation. The one yeast won't "eat" the other. She doesn't know what she's talking about. Next time use a bigger fermenter, something in the 6.5 gallon range.

I use what's called a "blow-off tube" on all my brews. It's basically some kind of tube that goes from your fermenter into a bucket of sanitizer/bleach water to allow for overfoaming.

http://www.mullerbrau.com/PICT0470.JPG

Let it be said: what has happened to your fermenting beer is more of a good thing than a bad thing. At least you know you have a healthy, vigorous fermentation going!

Thanks Brett, I'll keep that in mind. However, with the blow-off tube, I can't have an airlock right? Does the other end of the tube (that's in the bucket) go into the water, preventing air from getting into the carboys?

a blowoff tube is essentially an overgrown airlock. An airlock isn't to keep air out, it's to keep nasties from getting in, and let the CO2 outgassing out. When the fermentation's settled down a little, you can put the stopper and airlock back on.

Towers said:

Thanks Brett, I'll keep that in mind. However, with the blow-off tube, I can't have an airlock right? Does the other end of the tube (that's in the bucket) go into the water, preventing air from getting into the carboys?

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Yes, exactly. You stick the tube into your carboy and the other end in a container of water to prevent air and bacteria from coming in. I add a little sanitizer to the container with the water, just to keep it as sanitary as possible. I always do the fermentation in an "ale pale"- it's about 7.5 gallons and even so sometimes the krausen comes up out of the airlock. You reallly need some headspace when you make beer. Then, that krausen foam falls and your beer will be just about finished.

YooperBrew said:

You reallly need some headspace when you make beer. Then, that krausen foam falls and your beer will be just about finished.

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Well, I just checked on it, and it has settled down a lot, but it's still foaming out of the top of the airlock a little. So you're saying that it will continue to do this for the entire 6-7 days of fermentation? Then when it stops, it's ready to be transfered into the secondary fermenter?

Oh, no, it might only do this for 2 days or so before it settles down a little. Either way, leave it in the fermenter 7-10 days so the yeast can "clean up" after themselves. The yeast actually go back and eat their own waste products after the fermentation is over, so it'll give you better beer.

Now, since so much is blowing off, you're probably going to have less beer than you anticipated this time. That's ok, but if you use a bigger container next time, when you rack the beer into the clearing tank (a 5 gallon carboy would be great for that!) you'll have a little more beer. That's why I use a bucket with head space- less blow off mess and after fermentation, I can rack closer to 5 gallons into my clearing tank.

Now, don't worry about this at all. It sounds like it's going fine! Each fermentation is different, depending on ingredients, temperature, yeast, etc. So you might have a different experience next time. But that's not abnormal at all. Just try to relax and let the beer do its magic!

Between trips running to look for foam may I recommend some reading www.howtobrew.com it will make brewing a lot more fun and easier.

The airlock is not supposed to keep air out of the primary?? I know I'm a newbie, but please tell me this statement is not correct.

Secondly, the end of the blow off tube is lower than the part in the carboy. Why sanitize the water that the end of the tube is sitting in? How, on earth, could any water backwash into the carboy?

TheBone said:

The airlock is not supposed to keep air out of the primary?? I know I'm a newbie, but please tell me this statement is not correct.

Secondly, the end of the blow off tube is lower than the part in the carboy. Why sanitize the water that the end of the tube is sitting in? How, on earth, could any water backwash into the carboy?

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It just doesn't take any real effort to add a little sanitizer to the water for peace of mind, it's probably redundant but who cares.

I'm liking the blowoff tubes lately.

As for the air out of the primary comment, I think this has to do with the fact that the beer is covered by a layer of CO2 anyway, some people ferment stuff in loosely covered containers and it turns out fine. After all when you pop the lid on a fermentor to look at it or take a reading it doesn't ruin the beer...

The airlock is to keep air and nasties out of your brew but also lets the C02 out.

The blow off tube into water is to keep nasties from climbing up the tube and getting into your brew.

TheBone said:

The airlock is not supposed to keep air out of the primary?? I know I'm a newbie, but please tell me this statement is not correct.

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Well the point of the air lock is too keep any bugs (insects, bacteria, wild yeast) from getting into the beer. However it does mostly prevent air from moving back into the fermenter but does allow CO2 to escape. It is basically a one way valve for air.

TheBone said:

Secondly, the end of the blow off tube is lower than the part in the carboy. Why sanitize the water that the end of the tube is sitting in? How, on earth, could any water backwash into the carboy?

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If you have blow off the stuff in the tube is an idea place for various bacteria and yeast to grow. You want to prevent them from getting into the tube. Many of these bugs can survive in water and move into the tube an then grow up through the gunk into the tube into your beer. Not highly likely but it is possible. Sanitizer in the water kills these organisms before they have a chance to infect the blowoff tube. Its not entirely necessary but it is a good idea.
A 6.5 gal fermenter will greatly reduce the chance of blowoffs but not eliminate them so it is still a good idea to use a blow off tube for the first couple days. With a 5gal fermenter you will almost surely have a blowoff and likely lose a considerable amount of beer. Use a larger fermenter next time.
The suggestion to wait 2-3 days for fermentation is not a bad one as sometimes it can take that long to get visible signs of fermentation. But as you noticed sometimes you will get obvious fermentation much faster.
Most of the foaming will stop in a few days and the krausen will likely drop within a week. Then give it at least another week for the yeast to clean up by products and for the particles in the beer to drop out giving you a clear beer that is ready to bottle.
LHBSes are a mixed bag for good advice. Some are excellent, others have very outdated information and some are even wrong. You will usually get very good advice from this forum though not necessarily from every post.
http://howtobrew.com is also an excellent place for a beginner to start.

Craig

Ok, well, here it is, the 23rd. Three days have passed. The blow off has since stopped and I now have my carboy back in my room. The krausen (which I'm assuming is the foam) has dropped. So, if I'm reading you right Baron, at this point, I give it another week to let the yeast clean up and for my beer to clear, and then i can bottle? Or should I still give it the 2-3 weeks (providing fermentation doesn't initiate again)?

Towers said:

Ok, well, here it is, the 23rd. Three days have passed. The blow off has since stopped and I now have my carboy back in my room. The krausen (which I'm assuming is the foam) has dropped. So, if I'm reading you right Baron, at this point, I give it another week to let the yeast clean up and for my beer to clear, and then i can bottle? Or should I still give it the 2-3 weeks (providing fermentation doesn't initiate again)?

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I'll try to give you my best answer on this one. It's completely up to you. Some people go two weeks in a carboy and then into the bottle. Some give three or four weeks in Primary, then rack to a clearing tank for weeks or even months before bottling. Over time you will learn that darker beers need more time in each step, but the exact time frame varies wildly from one brewer to the next. Many swear by the 1 - 2 - 3 method which means 1 week primary 2 weeks clearing 3 weeks carbonating in the bottle, then drink. That seems to be a good starting point for newbies. Later on you can experiment with shorter and longer scedules. And eventually you'll decide on your own style. Most experienced brewers will tell you that the more patient you are, the better the beer becomes.

Everyting es gu-ing to bee aire mon... relaxxxx

stevecaaster said:

Everyting es gu-ing to bee aire mon... relaxxxx

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is that english?