dirty, dirty, dirty...... yiikes....

I'll be honest with you, I frequently only clean my stuff with hot water and a new sponge. If the b-brite is handy, I might use it, but in reality, maybe 20% of the time do I ever use more than just hot water. I have starsan too but maybe used an oz since I bought the bottle years ago. Never even opened the iodophor.

Oh, and I have never ever had even a single hint of cleanliness issues in my beer. So while most brewers think that no rinse cleaners, starsan, iodophor, etc are all that stands between us and total destruction from nasty germs, my experience has told me otherwise. And I am sure I will get all the "you are lucky" and "it is just a matter of time" and "blah blah blah" type responses. But you cannot really argue with my results. How you guys that use that stuff and still get infections do it is totally beyond my comprehension.

Hot water my friends, hot water; nothing more. And I mean what comes out of the tap - 120ish? Whatever, never checked, never cared.

I have been brewing for well over 10 years with never an issue.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

The ancients surely had no more than hot water and maybe some handmade soap, so it is possible.

No rinse is cheap and just as easy, so why not use it though?

cheezydemon3 said:

The ancients surely had no more than hot water and maybe some handmade soap, so it is possible.

No rinse is cheap and just as easy, so why not use it though?

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Mostly laziness. Same reason I don't give 2 sh1ts about hydro readings. It doesn't matter so who cares?

you use hot water? man...i only use luke warm water, plus i never wash my hands and sometimes i spit in my beer.

Hydro readings matter to me. I prefer to know my efficiency and SG, so I can fine tune my brewing process to get the most for money. Plus, it's nice to let my friends know the strength of the beer they're drinking, especially if they aren't used to craft brews. Plus, it's all part of the mad scientist fun of brewing for me, so the 2 minutes it takes to take a reading, taste the wort, and dump/clean is all part of the process.

I use a little bleach, but I'm with you - I just want to brew drinkable beer and have fun. Worrying is not fun....

I just recently started using a refractometer just to make sure that I was hitting a reasonable og. I have a perfectionist brewing friend that have me an earful when I said I early took gravity readings....not to mention bleach.

No hydro here. I just want beer.

Here's the thing about homebrew that makes it great; you're brewing for yourself! If you like it it doesn't matter what you do!

Obviously I have no way of knowing what your beer really tastes like so I have no way of knowing if it meets my relatively low standards (I'm sure it does most of the time) or other more picky members standards (it may...but it may not) or some expert beer judges standards (I'm honestly going to doubt it sometimes). Like I said, if it's good for you it's good for you so brew up. I just don't see the difficulty about dunking some stuff in a premixed five gallon bucket of Star San that has been sitting there for a month.

We all take risks to some degree or another. Why just the other day I had unprotected sex. And I didn't even wash my hand first.

I prefer the hydro readings just so i can tell people how effed up the stuff is gonna get them. Otherwise as long as it tastes good, eff it, right?

Homercidal said:

We all take risks to some degree or another. Why just the other day I had unprotected sex. And I didn't even wash my hand first.

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Sounds fairly normal for someone at Ferris! Do you still go there? I just graduated.

LOL! That's true. I graduated back in '98. I still go to the hockey games. My daughter just started going to Western though. I guess Ferris was just to close to home.

Oh cool, I'm just south of Kalamazoo now. Been considering joining the club there but it's still a bit of a drive

Kzoo is a nice town. We got season football tickets since Kim plays in the marching band. I'm hoping she can play in the pep band so I can go to hockey games too. And maybe fit a few visits to Bells in there while we are down.

I don't have a homebrew club yet, but I hear the one in Kzoo is pretty good. Can't remember the name off the top of my head. KLOB? I see them and drink their beer at Siciliano's Markets annual Homebrewers party in GR each May. If you haven't gone to one, I'd write it on the calendar now.

Slipgate said:

I'll be honest with you, I frequently only clean my stuff with hot water and a new sponge. If the b-brite is handy, I might use it, but in reality, maybe 20% of the time do I ever use more than just hot water. I have starsan too but maybe used an oz since I bought the bottle years ago. Never even opened the iodophor.

Oh, and I have never ever had even a single hint of cleanliness issues in my beer.

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out of curiosity - how long and/or full is your beard?

rawkstar320 said:

I use a little bleach, but I'm with you - I just want to brew drinkable beer and have fun. Worrying is not fun...

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exactly, and using star san is what allows me to not worry

That's nice.

I'll continue to take the incredibly simple step of rinsing my cold side equipment with starsan and reduce my risk of infection by several orders of magnitude.

Oh; and he's never needed to pitch his beer either ...

sweetcell said:

out of curiosity - how long and/or full is your beard?

exactly, and using star san is what allows me to not worry

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Star San is on my shopping list, my point was og.

Slipgate said:

Oh, and I have never ever had even a single hint of cleanliness issues in my beer. So while most brewers think that no rinse cleaners, starsan, iodophor, etc are all that stands between us and total destruction from nasty germs, my experience has told me otherwise. And I am sure I will get all the "you are lucky" and "it is just a matter of time" and "blah blah blah" type responses. But you cannot really argue with my results. How you guys that use that stuff and still get infections do it is totally beyond my comprehension.

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This is the same logic that smokers use. "My grandpa smoked his whole life, lived until he was 80, and never had cancer! Therefore, cigarettes don't cause cancer!"

Just because one person gets lucky doesn't mean they are smart. I'm not calling you stupid, but I'm saying your logic is severely flawed.

The only time I really let myself get stressed out is when I'm trying to follow my notes to get consistent or better results on a beer I've already done. Little by little I'm getting closer to my unicorn (Alaskan Amber). If I'm brewing because my pipeline is low, or I just want to try something new, I won't even take a hydro or check the temp of my mash. I'll know if I'm close enough (generally speaking). That said, I will never brew without using StarSan on everything that touches the beer. That's one variable I want constant.

Slipgate said:

But you cannot really argue with my results.

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No offense, I have no idea how good your beer is - it may be awesome and way better than mine. But to say "you cannot argue with my results" . . .. . when no one knows what any of your "results" are . . . .well, that is not a real good argument.

I have had some horrible, horrible homebrewed beer that the brewers said "was awesome." Not saying yours is bad. I just don't know.

Have you entered any competitions? If you consistently get scores back in the mid 30's, I would say you consistently make very good beer. Maybe not great, or the best - but some nice drinking beer. This would be the best way to "know" if the beer you brew is good or not - unbiased feedback from knowledgeable people who don't know you.

JordanThomas said:

This is the same logic that smokers use. "My grandpa smoked his whole life, lived until he was 80, and never had cancer! Therefore, cigarettes don't cause cancer!"

Just because one person gets lucky doesn't mean they are smart. I'm not calling you stupid, but I'm saying your logic is severely flawed.

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I smoke while leaning over the kettle. A little carbon never hurt anything. Can you say Rauchbier?

I collect rain water that runs off the roof of my house and just mix it with extract. I don't even add hops. I just mix the extract and rain water then pitch an old vial of yeast that I store in the attic of my house. All of my friends(my dogs and cats) say that it's the best beer on earth!

Seriously dude. Quit trolling.

Whattawort said:

I smoke while leaning over the kettle. A little carbon never hurt anything. Can you say Rauchbier?

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Haha that's funny.

I guess I just have a problem with posts like this because people who don't know any better might read it and actually think it's a good idea. What good does the OP do by posting this? Does it add anything to the community? I know this for sure: His beer is not sanitary. Without sanitizer, you cannot be sanitary. It might be clean, but it is NOT sanitary.

/endrant

JordanThomas said:

Haha that's funny.

I guess I just have a problem with posts like this because people who don't know any better might read it and actually think it's a good idea. What good does the OP do by posting this? Does it add anything to the community? I know this for sure: His beer is not sanitary. Without sanitizer, you cannot be sanitary. It might be clean, but it is NOT sanitary.

/endrant

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No beer is sanitary, it's teaming with microbes!!!

Cambone said:

No beer is sanitary, it's teaming with microbes!!!

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OK... his beer was not brewed with sanitary equipment.

JordanThomas said:

OK... his beer was not brewed with sanitary equipment.

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I had one that was sanitary. I ran out of StarSan and used bleach to clean my beer thief (aka turkey baster) and forgot that I needed to rinse it. That beer was clean as a whistle....and dead too. :cross:

Whattawort said:

I had one that was sanitary. I ran out of StarSan and used bleach to clean my beer thief (aka turkey baster) and forgot that I needed to rinse it. That beer was clean as a whistle....and dead too. :cross:

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Poor beer. Innocent and all.

JordanThomas said:

Poor beer. Innocent and all.

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Eh. It was an extract pale ale. Shame it didn't make it to its prime, but it freed up my fermenter for a better beer. At least I'm pretty sure it was better. We'll never really know.

When I keg I clarify my beer by running it through my unwashed socks. It gets rid of the trub, and adds a nice funky 'Beligan' flavor to the beer.

The Athlete's foot fungus cohabitates nicely with the yeast. They are kinda related after all.

You should try it.

lol - I figured on the know-it-alls and leaners that simply regurgitate what someone told them to respond at some point. Not biggie, most people just follow the crowd so I understand. And for the record, I don't go out of my way not to use sanitizer, I just don't go out of my way to use it. And to say that my equipment is not sanitary is simplistic at best. The fermenter is the only thing that matters since it is not boiled and it is scrubbed pretty well with a new sponge several times and rinsed with hot water. I replace my plastic buckets every 2 years or so. I have no doubt in my mind that this is every bit as sanitary as soaking it in starsan for 20 minutes.

No beard here! But I have been around long enough to think for myself. Not sure the younger generation will ever attain that level of thought, it just isn't in the population anymore.

Oh and I did enter my beer in one competition and it was deemed as "very good" with like a 42? Not sure it was the Sam Adams annual contest.

I too clean my equipment with just hot water from the tap. It's usually scalding hot so I feel it does a more than adequate job. ..That said, I don't think I could bring myself to not use some form of sanitizer on anything that is going to be holding/touching my wort. Call me sanitation paranoid but I'd hate to have a batch ruined over it. But as it's been said before, if it works for you why change it?

It would be interesting to do a side by side comparison under a scope with a sample of beer made without sanitizer ala Slipgate's method and beer made with sanitizer on the cold side. IMO its all about reducing the risk of microbial contamination on the surfaces which touch the beer. It is quite realistic that scrubbing a bucket clean, flushing well with clean water, and inverting to drip dry before it was used for fermenting would be enough to keep dust, wild yeast, bacterial spores, etc. out of the bucket and the beer. Does this make good beer, the OP says it does and I'm inclined to believe it... however, does this process make great, award winning beer... best practices from the industry would say otherwise. To each his own, cheers.

I started using an autoclave. Takes a bit of muscle power to shove the fermenter in there, but it's a sound investment. Just like that igloo in Alaska I bought from some schmuck.

In all seriousness, this topic is more used up than Snookie's cootercake.

Slipgate said:

lol - I figured on the know-it-alls and leaners that simply regurgitate what someone told them to respond at some point. Not biggie, most people just follow the crowd so I understand. And for the record, I don't go out of my way not to use sanitizer, I just don't go out of my way to use it. And to say that my equipment is not sanitary is simplistic at best. The fermenter is the only thing that matters since it is not boiled and it is scrubbed pretty well with a new sponge several times and rinsed with hot water. I replace my plastic buckets every 2 years or so. I have no doubt in my mind that this is every bit as sanitary as soaking it in starsan for 20 minutes.

No beard here! But I have been around long enough to think for myself. Not sure the younger generation will ever attain that level of thought, it just isn't in the population anymore.

Oh and I did enter my beer in one competition and it was deemed as "very good" with like a 42? Not sure it was the Sam Adams annual contest.

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So let me see if I understand you. Taking the easy, inexpensive and practical step of sanitizing a vessel that you are going to keep a food product in at room temperature for several weeks is " not thinking for yourself" just because someone else told you it was the right thing to do? Well I wash my hands after I wipe my ass because my mommy told me to, does that make me a follower as well? Most of what I know or think was told to me or taught to me by someone else at some point and I am sure the same is true for you and everyone else. For that matter, every process you use when you make beer was regurgitated to you by some other know it all. Unless you're a 10000 year old Sumarian you didn't think up brewing for yourself. Fine, you've got a system you like and it works for you. I can't tell you how happy that makes me. But just because I accepted as true the need to try and be as sanitary as possible while i was learning to brew that does not make me a " leaner" or any less able to think for myself as you. Eschewing traditional wisdom simply for the sake of being an "original thinker" is just arrogance.

And if you had a beer that scored a 42 in the Sam Adams brewing contest, I think you'd be a little more sure of it. That's an outstanding score in a hugely competitive competition. Kinda of like saying "I think I almost got a bronze that Olympic Games thing once, but I'm not sure".

Go ahead, don't doubt in YOUR mind that your equipment is sanitary. Tap water cannot get hot enough to sanitize anything. But go ahead, think in YOUR mind that it works. Just don't expect the majority of this community's intelligent members to start thinking that way. Which brings me back to my original point: what is the purpose of your thread? You didn't ask a question or provide new insight. Rather, you just told us, "hey! I don't sanitize. I've been brewing a long time so that must be effective!"

And you think your carboy is the only thing that matters?!? How about your siphon and tubing? Bung and airlock? Blowoff tube?

JordanThomas said:

Go ahead, don't doubt in YOUR mind that your equipment is sanitary. Tap water cannot get hot enough to sanitize anything. But go ahead, think in YOUR mind that it works. Just don't expect the majority of this community's intelligent members to start thinking that way. Which brings me back to my original point: what is the purpose of your thread? You didn't ask a question or provide new insight. Rather, you just told us, "hey! I don't sanitize. I've been brewing a long time so that must be effective!"

And you think your carboy is the only thing that matters?!? How about your siphon and tubing? Bung and airlock? Blowoff tube?

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Your anger would indicate you have doubts about something. I have no doubts about my methods. I am not going on the war-wagon stating that your methods are wrong. If it works for you, that is what counts. And apparently I did "provide new insight" since it would appear this is the first time you have heard this. Are you suggesting all opinions that don't agree with you should be quashed?

Of course I do include all the sundry parts you mention in the cleaning.

EllisTX said:

I collect rain water that runs off the roof of my house and just mix it with extract. I don't even add hops. I just mix the extract and rain water then pitch an old vial of yeast that I store in the attic of my house. All of my friends(my dogs and cats) say that it's the best beer on earth!

Seriously dude. Quit trolling.

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Trollers gotta troll

Slipgate said:

Your anger would indicate you have doubts about something. I have no doubts about my methods. I am not going on the war-wagon stating that your methods are wrong. If it works for you, that is what counts. And apparently I did "provide new insight" since it would appear this is the first time you have heard this. Are you suggesting all opinions that don't agree with you should be quashed?

Of course I do include all the sundry parts you mention in the cleaning.

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You aren't providing any opinions. You are simply saying that you don't sanitize. Then saying that 120 degree water is effective means of sanitization. That is, in fact, false. So go ahead, call it an opinion. I'm not mad that you do what you do. Use whatever methods you want. Your original post was a bit condescending

Slipgate said:

But you cannot really argue with my results. How you guys that use that stuff and still get infections do it is totally beyond my comprehension.

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So why are you surprised that people responded?

Flawed logic, condescending attitude, helped no one. If you're happy with it, be happy. What was the goal of your post? To troll. Obviously.

move on folks, nothing to see here...