How long to wait to use Wyeast?

I bought a brewers best Kolsch kit yesterday (Friday) and the LHBS had a Wyeast 2565 packet which I bought and would like to use. They had it refrigerated, and I am wondering how long I need to wait until its room temperature before I can brew. The guy that works there said wait until tomorrow (Sunday) to brew. Do u guys think I could brew today with it, or do you agree with him and wait until tomorrow?

We already smacked the packet at the LHBS when I bought it, and the package has started to swell, although I'm not sure how big it's supposed to get.

smack it and let it swell for a few hours before pitching, it should be at room temp by then. you really should be making a starter when using liquid yeast cultures.

My procedure is usually to take the pack from the fridge 3 - 4 hours before smacking and allow to warm to room temperature. I then smack the pack, wait for it to swell (you actually don't have to but many do,) then make a starter.

I've waited as long as 24 hours before pitching a swollen pack with good results.

Is a starter really necessary? What would happen if I don't use one?

I watched a YouTube video a little bit back with a Wyeast tech talking about this. He said 4-6 hours is ideal and that waiting too long could actually stress the yeast. Search it for 'when should smack wyeast' and you'll find it.

I've actually never used Wyeast, but I have used White Labs vials without a starter and made great beer. Starters are still nice with White Labs, but not necessary it seems to me. How "big" is the beer you're going to be making, as in what is the SG supposed to be? If it's low to mid gravity I bet it would be fine, though making a starter never hurts.

I use Wyeast and usually just get it out of the fridge in the morning and smack it right away. I'm usually pitching it within 4-6 hours after and have made fine beer that way. I've never used a starter with a Wyeast smack pack.

happypanties said:

Is a starter really necessary? What would happen if I don't use one?

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it's not necessary, just recommended. to know what the results of pitching a single liquid pack, search for the results of 'under pitching' beer, because in almost any beer with an OG over 1.03, one pack or vial of liquid yeast is an under pitch.

I do have a Nottingham dry yeast packet that came with the kit, would I be better off using that? Or perhaps mix a little dry with the Wyeast?

I do not have any dme to make a starter, and I need to brew tonight.

I would say just pitch the Wyeast and you'll be fine. Don't worry about the starter this time around.

happypanties said:

Is a starter really necessary? What would happen if I don't use one?

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Yes, the proper pitching rate for a vial of white labs or a smack pack of wyeast for a 5 gallon beer at 100% viability of the yeast is only a meager 1.028 starting gravity. So a starter is always necessary when using liquid yeast. Look into proper pitching rates and using a starter for your next beer.

Thanks for the replies, I think I'll use the packet of Nottingham that the kit came with. I'm a little nervous to use the Wyeast without a starter. Next time I try using Wyeast I'll make a starter.

I've never used a starter using Wyeast and I use it exclusively for all my beers. Everything I have brewed has been great. (knock on wood). The only time I would use a starter is if I was brewing a high gravity beer. Other than that a starter is unnecessary in my brewery.

happypanties said:

Thanks for the replies, I think I'll use the packet of Nottingham that the kit came with. I'm a little nervous to use the Wyeast without a starter. Next time I try using Wyeast I'll make a starter.

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I think that sounds like a great plan.

I think the Wyeast would be better without a starter than the dry yeast, personally.

Oh boy maybe I should flip a coin:cross:

Cooling the wort now...

Use the wyeast for this beer and not the nottingham. This style of beer is dependent on the yeast strain for some of its character and flavor.

But don't listen to the people that say a starter is unnecessary. Technically they are correct, the yeast will still make beer. But if you actually care about making a good product proper pitching rates are very important along with many other factors in brewing. Just make one for your next beer.

Allright gonna go with the Wyeast and hope for the best!

Don't worry your beer will be fine, paying attention to detail will give you fantastic beer. Yeast and fermentation temps are the most important factors that will yield better beer.

I am going to RDWHAHB

Yep I think you'll be just fine. IMO unless you were a seasoned beer taster with years and years of experience, you probably won't be able to tell the difference between a beer fermented with a starter and one without. A fresh and healthy Wyeast pack will make great beer without a starter. However, If the Mfg. date is over 3 months old, then I would start to think about making a starter because 1/3 to 1/2 of the yeast could be dead by then and a starter will help get you back to the 100 billion cell count.

Oh great just pulled the packet out of the garbage and saw the mfg date was 9/13/11.

happypanties said:

Oh great just pulled the packet out of the garbage and saw the mfg date was 9/13/11.

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Best if Used by: This package is best when used within 6 months of the manufacturer’s date when stored between 34-40°F (1-4°C). Older yeast or yeast that has been exposed to higher or lower temperatures may take longer to become active or swell.


Warranty

Our Product Warranty states that we guarantee the viability of the yeast in our Activator™ packages for 6 months from the manufacture date assuming that they have been properly shipped, stored and handled. Our superior packaging material provides 100% oxygen barrier and UV light protection making this exceptional guarantee possible. During this 6 month guaranteed shelf life, some loss of viability is to be expected. This will vary from one strain to another. Activator™ packages that are 4 months old or older may require additional time to swell after activation.

Wyeast Laboratories. Direct Pitch Activator

Well I did let it swell for about 30 hrs, so we'll see I guess. It's been in the fermenter for about 10 hrs now and still no blooping out of the airlock.

gilby_7 said:

Yep I think you'll be just fine. IMO unless you were a seasoned beer taster with years and years of experience, you probably won't be able to tell the difference between a beer fermented with a starter and one without. A fresh and healthy Wyeast pack will make great beer without a starter. However, If the Mfg. date is over 3 months old, then I would start to think about making a starter because 1/3 to 1/2 of the yeast could be dead by then and a starter will help get you back to the 100 billion cell count.

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And there is yet another reason why a starter is necessary. I don't understand this idea of making a starter and yet still way under pitching the beer. I guess making mediocre beer is the new trend with a lot of people.

gilby_7 said:

Yep I think you'll be just fine. IMO unless you were a seasoned beer taster with years and years of experience, you probably won't be able to tell the difference between a beer fermented with a starter and one without.

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i find this HILARIOUS! most of us ARE quite seasoned when it comes to tasting beer. but really what i get from that is, you can't taste 'off flavors' in your beer, why bother making good beer'. kudos to you for having a dull palate, but you shouldn't recommend that people risk off flavors in their beer cause you can't taste them in yours.

plain and simple, a starter is necessary for a proper pitch rate on ANY beer over 1.030 (give or take). sure, you can pitch a single pack into a 1.066 wort and it will ferment and make beer. but the under pitch will stress the yeast during the reproductive phase because they'll have to multiply more than if you pitch the proper amount. this stress will lead to off flavors that many a beer drinker will not only notice, but not care for. to each their own, but i think it's silly to say not to make a starter because you can't taste off flavors.

NordeastBrewer77 said:

i find this HILARIOUS! most of us ARE quite seasoned when it comes to tasting beer. but really what i get from that is, you can't taste 'off flavors' in your beer, why bother making good beer'. kudos to you for having a dull palate, but you shouldn't recommend that people risk off flavors in their beer cause you can't taste them in yours.

plain and simple, a starter is necessary for a proper pitch rate on ANY beer over 1.030 (give or take). sure, you can pitch a single pack into a 1.066 wort and it will ferment and make beer. but the under pitch will stress the yeast during the reproductive phase because they'll have to multiply more than if you pitch the proper amount. this stress will lead to off flavors that many a beer drinker will not only notice, but not care for. to each their own, but i think it's silly to say not to make a starter because you can't taste off flavors.

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So you're saying that it's impossible to make "good" beer without making a starter? I would very strongly disagree with that notion as I have made wonderful beers without starters that I would be proud to give to even the most conceited beer snob on this forum.

I'm not saying that yeast starters are not important in making beer. We've all read the science behind it thousands of times. All I'm saying is that it isn't always necessary to make good beer.

Are you suggesting that Happypanties should just throw out his/her beer and start over because he/she didn't make a starter?

gilby_7 said:

So you're saying that it's impossible to make "good" beer without making a starter? I would very strongly disagree with that notion as I have made wonderful beers without starters that I would be proud to give to even the most conceited beer snob on this forum.

I'm not saying that yeast starters are not important in making beer. We've all read the science behind it thousands of times. All I'm saying is that it isn't always necessary to make good beer.

Are you suggesting that Happypanties should just throw out his/her beer and start over because he/she didn't make a starter?

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i didn't suggest any of those things. i don't know why you'd imply that that's what i suggested.
i simply stated that a starter is recommended and that i, and many others can tell the difference in our beers from one that is under pitched and one that is pitched properly. if you can't, awesome, lucky you. but to imply that i was telling the OP to do silly $h*t is unnecessary.

NordeastBrewer77 said:

i didn't suggest any of those things. i don't know why you'd imply that that's what i suggested.
i simply stated that a starter is recommended and that i, and many others can tell the difference in our beers from one that is under pitched and one that is pitched properly. if you can't, awesome, lucky you. but to imply that i was telling the OP to do silly $h*t is unnecessary.

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I didn't imply anything, I was just asking if that was your suggestion if you didn't think it would be good beer. I think we both agree that Happypanties shouldn't worry and that it is very possible and highly likely that he will have a good beer that he will enjoy, starter or no starter.

gilby_7 said:

Are you suggesting that Happypanties should just throw out his/her beer and start over because he/she didn't make a starter?

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again, i'm not suggesting that the OP do anything other than make a starter.

gilby_7 said:

I didn't imply anything, I was just asking if that was your suggestion if you didn't think it would be good beer. I think we both agree that Happypanties shouldn't worry and that it is very possible and highly likely that he will have a good beer that he will enjoy, starter or no starter.

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again, no, it's not my suggestion that the OP dump a batch of beer, or do anything with this particular batch. merely that he/she make a starter when using liquid yeast. i agree that good beer can be made with one pack of yeast, but the risk of off flavors due to stressed yeast is heightened when you under pitch. one vial/pack of liquid yeast is an appropriate pitch rate for 5 gal of 1.028 wort, over 1.028 one pack is an under pitch. i guess it's an assumption that the OP is brewing a beer with an OG over 1.030 and i was suggesting that they pitch the appropriate amount of yeast for best results in their brew. which, correct me if i'm wrong, is basically what the OP asked. sorry if you can't understand that, but implying that I'm suggesting some wild action like dumping a batch of beer here is just silly and not helpful to the OP. i think you'd better serve the OP by posting of your experience brewing good beer with one pack/vial of yeast than knocking others for suggesting the OP pitch the proper amount of yeast.

I found this website through this forum: Mrmalty.com

Its a great resource to know what kind of yeast you'll need. WHile you don't "need" a starter, its always good practice to do it. It lets you see that the yeast is active and healthy, as well as creating enough to make your brew. But the biggest reason for using a yeast starter is... why not use one? It takes a day or two extra planning. But the peace of mind is worth it.

Brak23 said:

I found this website through this forum: Mrmalty.com

Its a great resource to know what kind of yeast you'll need. WHile you don't "need" a starter, its always good practice to do it. It lets you see that the yeast is active and healthy, as well as creating enough to make your brew. But the biggest reason for using a yeast starter is... why not use one? It takes a day or two extra planning. But the peace of mind is worth it.

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buy this man a beer!!!


Gilby, maybe you should do a bit more reading on the subject of yeast, yeast health, and pitch rates and what those things contribute to the finished brew. a good beer can be made with an under pitch, no doubt. but why take the chance when it's easy to insure that your fermentation, thus your beer will be great.

happypanties said:

Is a starter really necessary? What would happen if I don't use one?

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I am a starter maker. Last month, a trend came over and wanted to see the brew process... I didn't have a starter. We pitched a relatively fresh vial of WLP002. The beer was incredibly delicious. Sure, it was slightly underattenuated, but nothing big. Starters are insurance, IMO... unless the OG is predicted to be above 1.060ish, then it's much more important.

Cheers!

@ NordeastBrewer77

What DME would I use for a starter in this situation? One that came with the Kit? Or something you would normally have on hand?

Balto said:

@ NordeastBrewer77

What DME would I use for a starter in this situation? One that came with the Kit? Or something you would normally have on hand?

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If you decant, doesn't really matter. I keep light DME around just for starters. I know, I'm not who you asked...

NordeastBrewer77 said:

buy this man a beer!!!

Gilby, maybe you should do a bit more reading on the subject of yeast, yeast health, and pitch rates and what those things contribute to the finished brew. a good beer can be made with an under pitch, no doubt. but why take the chance when it's easy to insure that your fermentation, thus your beer will be great.

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Dude relax, have a beer and let it go. You are way too sensitive and taking my posts about beer way too personally. I'll post my opinions and you can post yours and we'll all live happily ever after.

BrightSpotBrewing said:

If you decant, doesn't really matter. I keep light DME around just for starters. I know, I'm not who you asked...

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Thanx for answering my questions BrightSpot. That's what I like about this forum!

Balto said:

@ NordeastBrewer77

What DME would I use for a starter in this situation? One that came with the Kit? Or something you would normally have on hand?

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i always use the lightest DME available for any starter. Midwest supply has a 'discount cart' right by the checkout where they discount broken bags of DME, dinged cans of extract, dated yeast, etc. if there's a light type of DME on it, i buy it for starters. otherwise i go with pilsen or extra light DME.

gilby_7 said:

Dude relax, have a beer and let it go. You are way too sensitive and taking my posts about beer way too personally. I'll post my opinions and you can post yours and we'll all live happily ever after.

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always relaxed bro. there was nothing to let go in the first place, sorry to burst your bubble, but i didn't take anything you said at a personal level, that'd be silly. simply stated that you weren't entirely correct and why. nothing personal, but on that subject, i noticed that almost half of your total posts on HBT are on this thread, arguing with me. maybe you shouldn't take it so personally when someone says something that isn't in line with your opinions. again, nothing personal here, but i really suggest some reading on the subject of yeast and fermentation before you start giving advice based soley on your experience.

Just wanted to chime in about starters. I use XL dme and normally don't decant (if its a 1L starter in a 5 gallon batch). Its worth noting though that if you're going to decant, that will take more time!

Preparedness is key with liquid yeasts. Time and supplies are important. Gotta keep the pipeline moving.

I also use extra light DME for my starters. I decant anything larger than 1L.

Also, an excellent read for those who need more information on proper pitch rates, yeast health, viability, etc. is "Yeast" by Jamil Zainasheff and Chris White of Whitelabs.