Belgian Golden Strong Ale

Good evening home brewers.

I brewed a belgian golden strong ale with the following ingredients:
6 Lbs DME (15 min)
3.5 Lbs Durste. Pils 2-row
.25 Lbs Durste. Carapils
.25 Lbs Durste. Biscuit
2 Lbs Clear Candi
10% Saaz (60 min)
5% Saaz (15 min)
1 tsp Irish Moss (15 min)
Wyeast 1388

My OG was 1.088. I left it in the primary for a total of 19 days and when I racked it to the secondary the gravity was at 1.016. I think at 1.016 it's close to being done but when I drank the sample it was still very sweet. I know this type of beer should sit in the fermenter for a few months so I'm in no hurry to start drinking it but should it still be that sweet at 1.016? Should I pitch more yeast or just let it be?

Thanks!

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Jerry

That might be all you'll get. The original golden strong ale (Duvel) has an OG of 1.069 and and FG of 1.005. That's 93% attenuation. They go through great lengths to get that (step-mash temps, yeast health, specific fermentation temps at specific timing, etc.). Wyeast 1388 is only expected to get up to 78% attenuation and you got 82%. I think it's done.

Thats probably one of the biggest troubles with trying to make a golden strong ale or many other Belgian styles... it's difficult to get the attenuation they get.

Oh... welcome to the forum!

It's almost certainly done.

I mashed an all-grain tripel at 149*F for 90 minutes, used 2# of turbinado, and pitched a gallon starter of the same yeast. OG was 1.090 and it finished at 1.014 which is about 85% AA.

I just did a partial mash Belgian kit from AHS. Went from 1.105 to 1.019, which works out to around 82% attenuation, i was pretty happy with that. I used Wyeast 3787.

Its still bulk aging in the secondary. Its a little sweet, but still tastes pretty damn good!

It might taste sweet because it may be a bit underhopped. I don't see how many IBUs that calculated out to, but that's a big beer. When you have an OG of 1.088, you'd need to have enough IBUs to not make it sweet. What did you have for IBUs with the Saaz hops?

What yeast did you use? I've got a similar all grain beer 75% Pils, 20% Vienna, 5% carapils that I fermented with WLP Saison II (566). OG was 1.084 and the FG is 1.008. I force carbed. Mine also tastes "sweet", although I had a little sample last night and the beer is fairly silky on the tongue and I think that is contributing to the sweetness sensation, making it seem sweeter than it really is.

Mine also clocks in at 50 IBU, but you don't notice it until the very end. I'm quite amazed this beer tastes as sweet as it does. I haven't had a Duvel in a while but my recollection is that it too seemed kinda sweet, especially given it's FG.

menschmaschine said:

That might be all you'll get. The original golden strong ale (Duvel) has an OG of 1.069 and and FG of 1.005. That's 93% attenuation. They go through great lengths to get that (step-mash temps, yeast health, specific fermentation temps at specific timing, etc.). Wyeast 1388 is only expected to get up to 78% attenuation and you got 82%. I think it's done.

Thats probably one of the biggest troubles with trying to make a golden strong ale or many other Belgian styles... it's difficult to get the attenuation they get.

Oh... welcome to the forum!

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Thanks for the heads-up and thanks for the welcome! I'll probably let it sit in the secondary for a month and then let it sit in bottles for another month or so to condition. I've been saving my Duvel bottles for this one.

--
Jerry

YooperBrew said:

What did you have for IBUs with the Saaz hops?

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I'll check my notes when I get home tonight. I can't remember.

--
Jerry

pjj2ba said:

What yeast did you use?

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Wyeast 1388

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Jerry

I've noticed the same types of things you are describing, the sweet taste and the same level of attenuation. I used the same yeast, 1388, and JZs AG recipe. Its been sitting for a little over three months now in a keg and i am still getting CO2 forming which i let out every couple days. I am going to let it sit a while

One thing i heard on JZs tripple show, i think, was that when you use a good amount of simple sugars, such as candi sugar or in my case table sugar, you want to add it during primary rather than during the boil. Yeast will want to take the easiest route to feed, so if you give them the easy stuff right away(the simple sugars) they will focus on that and leave the harder to break down sugars untouched. If i ever brew this or similar style again thats what I am going to do.

That said, i think you have the right idea to just let it sit, hope it turns out nice, good luck!

jcb317 said:

One thing i heard on JZs tripple show, i think, was that when you use a good amount of simple sugars, such as candi sugar or in my case table sugar, you want to add it during primary rather than during the boil. Yeast will want to take the easiest route to feed, so if you give them the easy stuff right away(the simple sugars) they will focus on that and leave the harder to break down sugars untouched. If i ever brew this or similar style again thats what I am going to do.

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I'll have to remember that for next time. Thanks for the tip!

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Jerry

Really, your OG was a little high as well. I wouldn't go much above 1.08 on that style. It's better to have a slightly lower ABV with no residual sweetness than a higher one with a high FG. Adding sugar after a majority of your fermentation has completed is a good idea too.

lordbeermestrength said:

Adding sugar after a majority of your fermentation has completed is a good idea too.

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This has been said a couple times in this thread and, apparently, said or implied my Jamil, but Duvel (Moortgat) doesn't do this and they still get insane attenuation. They add dextrose to the boil kettle. So, aside from malts and mash schedules, there's got to be another way and my thinking is primarily increases in temperature during fermentation. (IIRC, they pitch around 62 or 64°F and raise it to ~82°F. It's finished primary in 5 days.)

menschmaschine said:

This has been said a couple times in this thread and, apparently, said or implied my Jamil, but Duvel (Moortgat) doesn't do this and they still get insane attenuation. They add dextrose to the boil kettle. So, aside from malts and mash schedules, there's got to be another way and my thinking is primarily increases in temperature during fermentation. (IIRC, they pitch around 62 or 64°F and raise it to ~82°F. It's finished primary in 5 days.)

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Duvel might not do it but still it remains a great way for the average homebrewer to manipulate FGs downward.

This also remains an option for anyone trying to get a few more points of attenuation. On occasion, I will pasteurize a pound of dextrose or honey and add it to the primary or even secondary to get another round of fermentation. Done carefully and judiciously it can do a great job of notching down the sweetness.

EDIT: I agree, though, that Duvel is accomplishing their attenuation through temp mods.

I bet their pitch rate is probably insane too, if you pitch a gallon of yeast it doesn't matter much what the gravity is, you will get very rapid attenuation...

lordbeermestrength said:

Adding sugar after a majority of your fermentation has completed is a good idea too.

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Shouold I add some corn sugar to the secondary? And if so, how much?

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Jerry

for the style, anywhere from 10-20% of the total fermentables.

Harder for me to calculate if you are doing a partial mash... But for a 5 gal batch probably about 3 lbs...

EDIT: I should say that is TOTAL sugar. I would not add it to the seconday, just in the primary after your fermentation slows down a bit. Even then I'd only add about half to 2/3 of the total amount of sugar.

Speaking of temp control, do you have a way to slowly ramp the temp up? really more importantly than that you need to make sure you don't have any swings in temp. If you start ramping up, don't let it drop hard again.

I'm brewing one now. I going to add a pound of honey and a pound of candy sugar in primary at day three give it a few days then turn up the heat. I'll secondary it to clear it (adding sugar then would kind of defeat the purpose.) Mine is just 10 pounds pilsner. I'm using a decoction mash to try to get it as fermentabe as I can and the same yeast in a one gallon starter.

Saccharomyces said:

I bet their pitch rate is probably insane too, if you pitch a gallon of yeast it doesn't matter much what the gravity is, you will get very rapid attenuation...

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If I remember BLAM correctly, I think it's actually lower than what most breweries do.

menschmaschine said:

If I remember BLAM correctly, I think it's actually lower than what most breweries do.

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They do underpitch a little. It helps to develop some of the esters they are looking for.

I just did a golden strong using the Golden Ale from White Labs and it went from 1.088 to 1.007. I added the sugar during the boil, and I just used simple table sugar. I believe the rest of the grain bill was just base malt and some munich.

The temp started at 68, I let it rise to 74 after a few days and it never went much higher.

I think my mash temp was 148. In fact, I can't imagine it could have been anything else.