Ruination IPA ideas?

Plan on making my 3rd attempt at brewing this week (first 2 turned out pretty well) and have decided make an IPA, kind of using Stone Ruination IPA as my base recipe. I'm looking to make a really full bodied IPA though...any ideas on changes to make/additions to make the ruination ipa have more body/malt influence??
Again, I'm a noob so my brewing knowledge is pretty limited. Im making a 5 gal batch partial boil using extract w/ grains and plan on dry hopping in secondary.
Thanks in advance guys.
This is the clone recipe im using as my base btw:

Ruination IPA clone
(Stone Brewing Company)
(5 gallons/19 L)
OG = 1.075 FG = 1.010
IBU = 100+ SRM = 6 ABV =7.7%


6.6 lbs. (3 kg)Northwestern gold (light) malt extract syrup
2.0 lbs. (0.9 kg) Northwestern gold (light) dry malt extract
1.0 lb. (0.45 kg) Briess 2-row malt
1 lb. (0.45 kg) Briess crystal malt (1 5 "L)
1 tsp. lrish moss (60 minutes)

36.0 AAU Magnum hops (bittering hop)
(2.25 oz./64 g of 16.0% alpha acids)
15.7 AAU Centennial hops (aroma/finishing hop)
(1 .5 oz./43 g ot 10.5%o alpha acid)
21.0 AAU Centennial hops (2.0 oz./56 g of 10.5% alpha acid)

White Labs WLPOOl(California Ale) yeast
or Wyeast 1056 (American Ale) yeast
0.75 cup of corn sugar (for priming)

Step-by-step
Steep the 2 crushed grains in 3 gallons (1 1.4 L) of water at 149 'F (65 'C) for 30 minutes. Remove grains from wort, add Magnum hops, malt syrup and bring to a boil. Add lrish moss and boil for 60 minutes. Add the first addition of Centennial hops at the end of the boil, and let steep for 5 minutes.
Add wort to 2 gallons (7.6 L) cool water in a sanitary fermenter, and top off with cool water to 5.5 gallons (20.9 L). Cool the wod to 75'F (24 oC), aerate the beer and pitch yeast. Allow the beer to cool over the next few hours to 68 'F (20 'C) and hold at this temperature until the yeast has finished fermentation. Add last addition of Centennial hops for dry hopping. Dry hop for 3 lo 5 days, then bottle your beer, carbonate and enjoy!

1) depending on the extract you use, it may provide more body on its own.
2) Maybe something like steep some carapils in place of some of the DME.

BrewKnurd said:

1) depending on the extract you use, it may provide more body on its own.
2) Maybe something like steep some carapils in place of some of the DME.

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OK well i posted the wrong recipe, but it should now be correct in the orignal post with more details about the extracts.
If i used like 0.25 lbs of the carapils malt, how much of the malt extract should i take out? roughly the same?
thanks.

you can use 0.6 lbs of DME per lb of grain and 0.8 lbs of LME per lb of grain as guidelines for swapping extract for grain. So that would come out to .15 lb of DME. But honestly, I don't think I'd even fuss with it if you're going to add .25 lb. that's going to add less than 2 points to your OG, so I wouldn't bother with adjusting the DME if its already measured out.

Maltodextrin will add body. You basically want to look to add something with dextrose in it which is unfermentable and will therefore add body. there are probably certain grains that have more dextrose and less maltose available for conversion, but my new to this myself so can't really help you there. Some searching might help on that front. If you're doing extract though, Maltodextrin would probably be the easiest. You can just add it to the book, something like 8 oz for a 5 gallon batch.

Also, your recipe calls for 2 row, which had to be mashed. Hope you are aware of that before trying this brew.

Sorry, doing this on my phone and autocorrect got me. Don't know how to edit from my phone either (doh). Meant to write add it to your boil not add it to your book.

Cheers!

BPal75 said:

You basically want to look to add something with dextrose in it which is unfermentable and will therefore add body. there are probably certain grains that have more dextrose and less maltose available for conversion, but my new to this myself so can't really help you there.

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You are confusing dextrins and dextrose. Dextrose is most definitely fermentable. If you add "corn sugar" at bottling, you are adding dextrose.

Oh! Thanks for the correction. I think my original point however that adding Maltodextrin might work for you, as that is mostly if not wholly unfermentable and is commonly used to add body or "mouthfeel" to low malt beers.

Good luck!

That recipe looks pretty "thick" already with the crystal malt and the extract.

I would ditch the one pound of two-row as it's not doing anything in there and just steep the crystal. You'd have to do a mash with the two-row and change your volume and so on. I'd just leave out the two-row.

I'm sure you know this, but you don't boil Irish moss for 60 minutes. It goes in with about 15 minutes left in the boil.

I'd change the hopping a bit. I like more hops additions for a hoppy beer. I'd do somethiing more like this;

1.5 oz Magnum hops 60 minutes
1 oz centennial 15 minutes
1 oz centennial 10 minutes
1 oz centennial 5 minutes
1 oz centennial 0 minutes
Dryhop with centennial

I would NOT add anything like maltodextrine to this. It might be pretty thick as is, and you could always add it later if you don't think it's full bodied enough.

Also, consider adding much of the extract near or at the end of the boil. That much extract in 3 gallons of wort will darken and taste like "cooked extract". Add the dry extract at the beginning of the boil, and save the liquid extract to stir in at the end. That will help with hops utilization, and keeping a fresher taste in the finished beer.

Ruination uses magnum? I thought it was 100% centennial... Not that the bittering hop really matters all that wildly when you try to push IBU's this hard.

Not that this anything of a huge matter but you may want to try to add 1/2 oz -1 oz of WHOLE LEAF centennial hops into your steeping bag with the grains. While this is not exactly like a mash hop it should help add some extra "punch" . Worth a try if you can source the hops cheap.

Yooper said:

That recipe looks pretty "thick" already with the crystal malt and the extract.

I would ditch the one pound of two-row as it's not doing anything in there and just steep the crystal. You'd have to do a mash with the two-row and change your volume and so on. I'd just leave out the two-row.

I'm sure you know this, but you don't boil Irish moss for 60 minutes. It goes in with about 15 minutes left in the boil.

I'd change the hopping a bit. I like more hops additions for a hoppy beer. I'd do somethiing more like this;

1.5 oz Magnum hops 60 minutes
1 oz centennial 15 minutes
1 oz centennial 10 minutes
1 oz centennial 5 minutes
1 oz centennial 0 minutes
Dryhop with centennial

I would NOT add anything like maltodextrine to this. It might be pretty thick as is, and you could always add it later if you don't think it's full bodied enough.

Also, consider adding much of the extract near or at the end of the boil. That much extract in 3 gallons of wort will darken and taste like "cooked extract". Add the dry extract at the beginning of the boil, and save the liquid extract to stir in at the end. That will help with hops utilization, and keeping a fresher taste in the finished beer.

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Ok, a couple of you mentioned having to do a mash with the 2 row -having just very basic knowledge of what doing a mash entails as Ive never actually done it before, whats the difference between mashing and just steeping the grains? Obviously steeping youre not doing for nearly as long (30 mins or so), so is that just not long enough for the starches to convert to sugars and steeping just gives you some of the flavor from the grains? Is that the difference? And why just the 2 row and not the crystal?
In my last batch I made, which was a magic hat #9 clone,i did the same thing with 1lb, 13oz of 2 row malt and I just steeped it for 30 mins as well, as this recipe calls for and didnt change the volume or anything else. Turned out pretty well IMO, Im just trying to figure out the science behind why you both recommended that.

I think i will spread out the hops addiitons a little more, like you suggested. Seems to me like it will retain a little more of the hop flavor doing it that way as opposed to dumping the majority in at the beginning of the boil.

And yes, I did know about the Irish moss...I dont know why it says to boil for the full 60, typo perhaps.
Thanks!

wakeuphicks said:

Ok, a couple of you mentioned having to do a mash with the 2 row -having just very basic knowledge of what doing a mash entails as Ive never actually done it before, whats the difference between mashing and just steeping the grains? Obviously steeping youre not doing for nearly as long (30 mins or so), so is that just not long enough for the starches to convert to sugars and steeping just gives you some of the flavor from the grains? Is that the difference? And why just the 2 row and not the crystal?
In my last batch I made, which was a magic hat #9 clone,i did the same thing with 1lb, 13oz of 2 row malt and I just steeped it for 30 mins as well, as this recipe calls for and didnt change the volume or anything else. Turned out pretty well IMO, Im just trying to figure out the science behind why you both recommended that.

I think i will spread out the hops addiitons a little more, like you suggested. Seems to me like it will retain a little more of the hop flavor doing it that way as opposed to dumping the majority in at the beginning of the boil.

And yes, I did know about the Irish moss...I dont know why it says to boil for the full 60, typo perhaps.
Thanks!

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A "mash" is like steeping in technique, but you use a prescribed amount of water at a prescribed temperature for a prescribed time. The difference is just that crystal malt has already been processed for you- premashed, so to speak. So steeping it is like making tea- you just soak it in some water to get color and flavor from it. With grains that must be mashed, there has been no conversion. That means you have to mash the grain, as to convert the starches in the grain to fermentable sugar. I wouldn't bother with worrying about a mash unless I had more than a pound of two-row to worry about- it will give NOTHING to your beer. Not color, and not discernible flavor, as it is a base malt. The crystal is fine to use, as is the extract (where the majority of the fermentables come from). You want to do a partial mash in the future using some base grains, we can help you with that. But for one pound of grain that will not give you anything, it's not really worth it at all. Just leave it out.

My Ruination recipe is different than the one in BYO, and I really like more late hop additions. It's a beer that is all about hops flavor and aroma, and I love lots of additions in it.

Yooper said:

My Ruination recipe is different than the one in BYO, and I really like more late hop additions. It's a beer that is all about hops flavor and aroma, and I love lots of additions in it.

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I'm going to try to bring this thread back from the dead! Yooper, I have two questions about your recipe. Would there be any benefit or harm done by adding a half pound of dextrose? I like the idea of a higher ABV but I don't want to mess up the body of the finished product.

In the article, the yeast recommended is WLP002. What impact would using this have on the final product?

I have read the testimonials on your Ruination Clone Recipe page and I actually don't think I'll change a thing my first time brewing it.

Cheers!