wetchicken6
Active Member
After I add the yeast to the wort in the fermentor, What type of setup works the best as an erator. Can you use a stone along with a aquirium pump? How long do you do this for?
adding O2 to the wort
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JonK331
Well-Known Member
You should aerate/oxygenate before adding the yeast. You can attach a hose to an aquarium pump with a stone on the end and that will work. It's best to have a sterile filter between the pump and the stone to ensure clean air is going into your beer. The filters are only a couple dollars. With a pump, you should go at least half hour, more for bigger beers. If you are using an O2 tank, it only takes two minutes but you have to keep buying tanks.
The saturation point of using air is 8 ppm O2, which is typically achieved within 5 min. Aerating longer with an aquarium pump does not increase the amount of O2 in the wort. The only way to exceed this amount is to use pure O2. The amount you aerate with pure O2 will depend on the OG. I would avoid using an across the board time for pure O2 to avoid adding to much oxygen in lower gravity beers. Personally, I routinely use pure O2 to aerate my wort with different aeration times for different starting gravities.
Interesting. Do you have a table or chart showing ideal oxygenation times and/or ppm do based on gravity? That would be very handy.
I use a table that was provided with my O2 aeration kit, but JZs and Chris White's book on "Yeast" has the best discussion on oxygen requirements. Unfortunately I don't have the table or book on me right now.
KraphtBier
Well-Known Member
I would definitely like to see a chart relating O.G to the number of minutes of aeration (with pure 02 or even just air via aquarium pump) needed for optimum fermentation.
JonK331
Well-Known Member
So this description on Morebeer's site is incorrect? http://morebeer.com/view_product/16607/102281/Aeration_System
Plenty of heated debate but this thread should answer many of your questions:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/i-completely-underestimated-role-oxygen-235663/
That info is definitely incorrect according to CWs and JZs book on "Yeast."
Here is the info that came with my oxygenation kit.
"Open the valve regulator with stone submerged in the wort until the 0.5 micron bubbles can be seen (approx. 2-2.5 turns). Do not open excessively, large bubbles do not stay in solution effectively as fine."
5 gal pitched wort:
SG 1.040-1.050: 1 min
SG 1.050-1.060: 1.5 min
SG 1.060-1.070: 2 min
SG 1.070+ : 2.5-3 min + once additionally in 12-14 hours. (I believe this additional O2 should be about 1/4-1/2 of what was originally added at the beginning)
These schedules should yield 10-15 ppm dissolved O2.
I have not been doing the additional O2 at 12-14 hrs because I remember reading somewhere in BYO that according to JZ if you pitch enough yeast then this shouldn't be necessary. However, in "Yeast" he says this may be necessary. So, it seems a little conflicting to me.
bctdi
Well-Known Member
That looks pretty good. I just got the o2 wand/ stone kit from williams, but mine is a 2 micron stone.Would you say to keep the regulator setting so that the smallest bubbles come out and use those same times that you use with your .5 micron stone?
I use the same wand from William's in which I originally purchased to aerate with an aquarium pump. When I switched to O2, the only place I could locate the regulator was from hop tech and it was only available with their oxygen kit. Therefore, these instructions are from them. I still use the Williams wand to disperse the O2 and I think 2-2.5 turns is about right, but you may need to play around with it. I would still target the generation of fine bubles and therefore these times should provide you the same results.
bctdi
Well-Known Member
Ok thanks for the info
That helps give me a starting point to tune in my process....advice on this can be all over the place, but a common theme seems to be 1-2 minutes.Here's some more info that I posted in an earlier thread that uses actual flow rates. I found it quite interesting.
Interesting discussion of wort oxygenation techniques
Saw this on hbd.org and thought some would be interested in it here. I couldn't link directly to the discussion, but if you go here it can be found http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi.
This post is in response to some recent discussions regarding oxygenation levels in wort.
We (Wyeast) recommend 8-15 ppm O2 for healthy fermentations. Some strains require higher oxygen levels than others. Manipulation of pitch rates can increase or reduce the need for oxygen levels. High pitch rates lead to fewer doublings and reduce the need for high levels of sterols. Sterol levels are typically the limiting factor in cell growth. These cellular membrane components are synthesized by the cells using oxygen during the lag phase and assist in keeping the membrane flexible and permeable. Low pitching rates lead to an increase in cell growth (doublings) requiring higher levels of sterols and oxygen.
Last year I ran an experiment comparing homebrew oxygenation methods. The experiment compared dissolved oxygenation levels achieved vs. time for homebrew oxygenation methods including splashing and shaking, siphon spray, aquarium pump, and pure oxygen. I presented the results at the NHC last year in Vegas.
Methods Compared:
Splashing and Shaking- Traditional homebrew aeration method of picking up the carboy and shaking it.
Siphon Spray - Small attachment to your run-in hose that splashes the wort as it enters the fermenter.
Aquarium Pump and Stone- Running compressed air from an aquarium pump through a 2 micron stone (Oxynater).
Pure Oxygen- Running Oxygen through a 2 micron stone (Oxynater) at a flow rate of 3.5 LPM.
The same wort and temperature was used for all methods. Dissolved oxygen levels were measures at 5 second intervals using a DO meter.
OG- 1.045
Temp- 68 F
Volume- 5 gal
Fermenter- Standard 5 gal glass carboy
Stone pore size- 2 micron (Liquid Bread Oxynater)
Oxygen Supply- Bernzomatic
Oxygen flow rate with Bernzomatic was estimated at 3.5 LPM based on a visual comparison of stone activities (vigor of bubbles) with a regulator with gauges on a larger cylinder.
Results:
Siphon Spray: Delivered 4 ppm in wort transfer.
Splashing and Shaking: Reached saturation point of 8 ppm in 40 seconds.
Aquarium Pump and Stone: Reached 8 ppm in 5 minutes.
Pure Oxygen with Stone: 8 ppm (20 seconds), 15 ppm (80 seconds), 22 ppm (2 minutes)
Comments:
There are a lot of variables involved with dissolving oxygen into solution including wort gravity, wort temperature, stone pore size and surface area, O2 flow rate, time, turbulence of wort, and fermenter geometry. This experiment attempted to reduce the number of variables. Oxygenation of a large amount of liquid with a small stone is not an efficient way to dissolve O2 into solution, but in most homebrew cases it is the only method available. Oxygenation in-line (professional method) increases surface area and contact time and increases the efficiency of dissolving O2.
That being said, this experiment demonstrated that using an aquarium pump with a stone is not an efficient way to deliver oxygen into wort. Splashing and shaking was rather efficient (40 sec.) in achieving O2 saturation point with air. Pure oxygen is an easy method that not only allows brewers more efficiency and better control over DO levels but also allows brewers to attain higher levels of DO versus using air.
As a side note, I currently use a combination of two methods. I inject a small amount of O2 and then shake my carboy to fully dissolve it into solution. I have not run any tests with this method but am confident that I am achieving good levels of DO.
I hope that this helps. If you want any additional information or a chart on oxygenation levels vs. time using O2, please email me at [email protected]
Thanks,
Greg
Interesting discussion of wort oxygenation techniques
Saw this on hbd.org and thought some would be interested in it here. I couldn't link directly to the discussion, but if you go here it can be found http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi.
This post is in response to some recent discussions regarding oxygenation levels in wort.
We (Wyeast) recommend 8-15 ppm O2 for healthy fermentations. Some strains require higher oxygen levels than others. Manipulation of pitch rates can increase or reduce the need for oxygen levels. High pitch rates lead to fewer doublings and reduce the need for high levels of sterols. Sterol levels are typically the limiting factor in cell growth. These cellular membrane components are synthesized by the cells using oxygen during the lag phase and assist in keeping the membrane flexible and permeable. Low pitching rates lead to an increase in cell growth (doublings) requiring higher levels of sterols and oxygen.
Last year I ran an experiment comparing homebrew oxygenation methods. The experiment compared dissolved oxygenation levels achieved vs. time for homebrew oxygenation methods including splashing and shaking, siphon spray, aquarium pump, and pure oxygen. I presented the results at the NHC last year in Vegas.
Methods Compared:
Splashing and Shaking- Traditional homebrew aeration method of picking up the carboy and shaking it.
Siphon Spray - Small attachment to your run-in hose that splashes the wort as it enters the fermenter.
Aquarium Pump and Stone- Running compressed air from an aquarium pump through a 2 micron stone (Oxynater).
Pure Oxygen- Running Oxygen through a 2 micron stone (Oxynater) at a flow rate of 3.5 LPM.
The same wort and temperature was used for all methods. Dissolved oxygen levels were measures at 5 second intervals using a DO meter.
OG- 1.045
Temp- 68 F
Volume- 5 gal
Fermenter- Standard 5 gal glass carboy
Stone pore size- 2 micron (Liquid Bread Oxynater)
Oxygen Supply- Bernzomatic
Oxygen flow rate with Bernzomatic was estimated at 3.5 LPM based on a visual comparison of stone activities (vigor of bubbles) with a regulator with gauges on a larger cylinder.
Results:
Siphon Spray: Delivered 4 ppm in wort transfer.
Splashing and Shaking: Reached saturation point of 8 ppm in 40 seconds.
Aquarium Pump and Stone: Reached 8 ppm in 5 minutes.
Pure Oxygen with Stone: 8 ppm (20 seconds), 15 ppm (80 seconds), 22 ppm (2 minutes)
Comments:
There are a lot of variables involved with dissolving oxygen into solution including wort gravity, wort temperature, stone pore size and surface area, O2 flow rate, time, turbulence of wort, and fermenter geometry. This experiment attempted to reduce the number of variables. Oxygenation of a large amount of liquid with a small stone is not an efficient way to dissolve O2 into solution, but in most homebrew cases it is the only method available. Oxygenation in-line (professional method) increases surface area and contact time and increases the efficiency of dissolving O2.
That being said, this experiment demonstrated that using an aquarium pump with a stone is not an efficient way to deliver oxygen into wort. Splashing and shaking was rather efficient (40 sec.) in achieving O2 saturation point with air. Pure oxygen is an easy method that not only allows brewers more efficiency and better control over DO levels but also allows brewers to attain higher levels of DO versus using air.
As a side note, I currently use a combination of two methods. I inject a small amount of O2 and then shake my carboy to fully dissolve it into solution. I have not run any tests with this method but am confident that I am achieving good levels of DO.
I hope that this helps. If you want any additional information or a chart on oxygenation levels vs. time using O2, please email me at [email protected]
Thanks,
Greg
