Did I kill my yeast with StarSan?

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POAS

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I was making an 1 L starter and had about 100ml of StarSan in the container, and I forgot to dump it before I added the wort with the yeast in it. I'm thinking that I killed the yeast. It was a pack of dry safelager yeast mixed in with 1L of water with 100 g of DML. I measured the pH after I mixed it in (when I realized that I had forgotten to dump the StarSan) and it is at 5.0.

Is my yeast toast?
 
Should be fine. Yeast, supposedly, actually like a bit of starsan to help them get into the mood for metabolizing sugars.

Probably did more damage measuring PH of the starter wort than adding on top of the starsan:mug:
 
I gotta tell ya, I would not be putting starsan in my beer, whether it will hurt you or not. Dry yeast is cheap enough to buy another pack!
 
You probably did not kill the yeast with the Starsan,

But the question is why are you making a starter with dry yeast. It is not necessary, and potentially not as good as just re-hydrating.
 
Reason for the starter is that it was a lager. I am under the impression that lagers require a lot of yeast to get started.


To measure the pH, I simply poured off a little bit out to a separate container so I don't think that I could have infected it.

Thanks. I guess I'll just see if it gets going. If not, I'll be back at the LHBS to get some more yeast.
 
For future reference, and I only gleaned this bit of useful info very recently from another thread on here, supposedly dry yeast is packaged at its fully developed potential so using it in a starter actually depletes the yeast's reserves. Re-hydrating in clean, luke-warm water a couple of hours before pitching definitely has benefits and my most recent batch got off to a roaring start within 18 hours of pitching. Pitched at 68, showed signs of fermentation and beginnings of krauzen whilst at 62 and then went full on Vesuvius for 5 days.:mug:
 
That's a good thing to know. I guess I'll remember that for next time. Maybe what I should have done is used two packs of dry yeast, rehydrated them and be done. At this point, the starter is doing very well, so the yeast is obviously not dead, so I'll just crash it, decant it and use it as is.
 
You can buy dry lager yeast? I thought all dry yeast was ale yeast?

Fermentis makes excellent dry lager yeasts. I like W-34/70 the best; it performs very well in a wide variety of lagers and it will ferment slightly cooler than most other lager strains. S-23 is a good warmer-temperature strain; I've used it in Bohemian pilsners fermented both "warmish" (mid-50s) and "cool-ish" (high-40s) and won medals with both, although fermentation was quite slow at the lower temperature and had to be increased to get the beer to reach FG. S-189 is a very nice strain as well; appropriate for maltier lagers. It's generally only available in 500g bricks although American Brewmaster sells re-packaged 11g packets (I bought a dozen about a year and a half ago). The strain performs well; personally I would not bother with it given how readily available W-34/70 is and how well it performs. As an FYI it's the same strain as Wyeast 2124.
 
Revvy said:
Yeast likes starsan it breaks down into food for them. Like a yeast energizer. Nothing to worry about.

I had no idea...learn something new every day I guess. Sounds nasty though. I ran idophor through a filter prior to using it one time and I swore that I could taste it in the beer. You don't think that would have been the case if I would have used Starsan?
 
I had no idea...learn something new every day I guess. Sounds nasty though. I ran idophor through a filter prior to using it one time and I swore that I could taste it in the beer. You don't think that would have been the case if I would have used Starsan?

This podcast has been posted every time this question comes up, it's all over the place on here, in fact a transcript of it is even stickied at the top of the equipment/sanitiation section of the forum.

March 29, 2007 - Sanitizing with Bleach and Star San
Charlie Talley from Five Star Chemicals tells us best practices in using household bleach and Star San in sanitizing equipment.

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr03-29-07.mp3

At dilute concentrations, it mostly dissociates, freeing phosphate for yeast to use. Yeast nutrient that you buy in the store is primarily nitrogen compounds and phosphates- the breakdown products of StarSan are phosphates.....they're also the same products we consume daily in many products. If you're drinking Colas, you're drinking some of the same products.
 
bobbrewedit said:
I had no idea...learn something new every day I guess. Sounds nasty though. I ran idophor through a filter prior to using it one time and I swore that I could taste it in the beer. You don't think that would have been the case if I would have used Starsan?

I drank an ounce of properly diluted star San once. It tasted kinda like very very dilute lemonade. In my opinion, it would take a lot to have any detectable flavor impact.
 
Hmmm, very cool. I'll switch to starsan as soon as I run out of idophor. Thank you gentlemen.
 
Starsan is only effective when pH is at or below 3.5. If your pH is 5.0 you're good to go.
 
Hmmm, very cool. I'll switch to starsan as soon as I run out of idophor. Thank you gentlemen.

You don't have to if you're happy with iodophor. They're both excellent sanitizers, no one is any more or less better than the other. I use them both. Sometimes it's good to change pm to keep any house germs as we call them at bay. Every brewery has their unique "bugs" and just like with pennicilin, sometimes they can get used to what we do. So throwing them a curve ball every now and then isn't a bad idea.
 
I've been brewing for a while now and only use idophor, mostly because the starsan bubbles gross me out. If its really that harmless though, ill give it a shot.
 
My lhbs owner told me iodophor starts to break down once the container is opened. Has anyone else heard this?
 
Yeast likes starsan it breaks down into food for them. Like a yeast energizer. Nothing to worry about.

I dont get this.. How can star san be used as a sanitizer, and at the same time work as a yeast energiser?

I mean, if i have some unwanted yeast cells in my carboy, and I star san the carboy. Will that make the yeast grow? I thougt the point was to kill it :D

Maybe it has something to do with ph? Since the wort has a PH that star san doesn't function in?
 
I've been brewing for a while now and only use idophor, mostly because the starsan bubbles gross me out. If its really that harmless though, ill give it a shot.

I still can't figure out why the bubbles freak folks out. The REASON for the bubbles is so the sanitizer can reach into every little crack and crevice in a fermenter, and in hard to reach places such as the top of fluid lines in kegging systems, in every little place inside of a tap system. The foam is our friend.

And it is plain fun...

"Stupid Starsan Tricks" or why you shouldn't fear the foam...
 
I dont get this.. How can star san be used as a sanitizer, and at the same time work as a yeast energiser?

I mean, if i have some unwanted yeast cells in my carboy, and I star san the carboy. Will that make the yeast grow? I thougt the point was to kill it :D

Maybe it has something to do with ph? Since the wort has a PH that star san doesn't function in?

Star san's killing power is based on pH. Properly diulted starsan has a pH around 2.5. As long as its under 3.0, I believe, it is an effective sanitizer. Once you mix it with any appreciative amount of wort, you're well above the kill zone pH.

I did an experiment once, if you mix 4 gallons of typical wort (pH 5.3-5.5 ish) with 1 gallon of starsan, you end up with a pH in the high 4's.
 
Revvy said:
I still can't figure out why the bubbles freak folks out. The REASON for the bubbles is so the sanitizer can reach into every little crack and crevice in a fermenter, and in hard to reach places such as the top of fluid lines in kegging systems, in every little place inside of a tap system. The foam is our friend.

And it is plain fun...

"Stupid Starsan Tricks" or why you shouldn't fear the foam...

The no-rinse thing does it to me. As if there is still this foamy chemical that's going to end up in my beer mug at some point.
 
The no-rinse thing does it to me. As if there is still this foamy chemical that's going to end up in my beer mug at some point.

No, only in your delusion. Not in our reality. Like I showed you it breaks down into benign chemicals long before it gets to your glass. If you want to continue to act based on such a psychosis, that's your loss. Starsan is an AMAZING product. But just because you choose to believe something silly like that, it doesn't mean it's real. I keep operating under the delusion that 20 something, redheaded Irish strippers will someday call me "daddy," but that doesn't mean it's ever really going to happen. Some people still believe the earth is flat, or smoke, or have sex with prostitutes without condums...that doesn't mean they're right, or particularly smart in the face of evidence to the contrary. Does it? Man up, educate yourself with the information that is READILY available on here from the source, rather than just being ignorant and superstitious, and join the 21st century. MILLIONS of homebrewers use it the proper way everyday, and haven't grown overly large manboobs, or anything else of the sort, or had any other issues. Yon think you're smarter than us or something? Just like Pepsi clear or new coke, if there were problems with it, then do you think we'd still be using it?
 
+1 Revvy as always. Starsan is simply amazing, I was skeptical of 'the foam' on my first brew, but manned up and have had great beer results, and obviously no sanitation issues.
 
Revvy said:
If you want to continue to act based on such a psychosis, that's your loss. Starsan is an AMAZING product. But just because you choose to believe something silly like that

Man up, educate yourself with the information that is READILY available on here from the source, rather than just being ignorant and superstitious,

Yon think you're smarter than us or something?

Good grief...what did I say that deserved all this? Climb down off your soap box man and have another beer. I was merely mentioning why it made me nervous to use Starsan...Man up??? What would you know about "manning up"?
 
Star san's killing power is based on pH. Properly diulted starsan has a pH around 2.5. As long as its under 3.0, I believe, it is an effective sanitizer. Once you mix it with any appreciative amount of wort, you're well above the kill zone pH.

I did an experiment once, if you mix 4 gallons of typical wort (pH 5.3-5.5 ish) with 1 gallon of starsan, you end up with a pH in the high 4's.

OK, that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation!
 
I made a starter once where I pitched the yeast right into a container heavily foamed with Star San before I added the wort. I was worried about the affect it had on my yeast, but I imagine it quickly raised the pH of the solution to safe levels because that starter ended up blowing the tops off the two carboys it went into.
Just thought I'd share that.
 
Good grief...what did I say that deserved all this? Climb down off your soap box man and have another beer. I was merely mentioning why it made me nervous to use Starsan...Man up??? What would you know about "manning up"?

I get the feeling it was meant as a fairly "tongue in cheek" verbal lashing and intended to be taken in a humorous light:fro:

Your comments brought a smile to my face too as, for some reason, I had a picture of Charlie Brown in my mind's eye.:tank:
 
OK, here's proof that the StarSan did not kill my yeast. This is a 1 L starter and there appears to be a huge amount of yeast that has settled at the bottom. My plan was to take this up to a 2 L starter, but unfortunately it fermented at about 72 deg. So I'll probably just dump the poor guys down the drain, go get me a couple more packages of the dry lager yeast, rehydrate them and use that for my first Lager beer. I don't want to take any chances (from the high ferm temps, not the sanitizer).

Yeast Starter.jpg
 
What!?! Why would you dump those poor, innocent yeasties?

The fermentation temperature of your starter is far less important than the fermentation temperature of your main wort. The higher fermentation temperature of your starter (although 72 F is not that high at all) may indeed have produced some off-flavors in your starter wort, but who cares? Decant the spent wort and just pitch the actual yeast. You've got a great start on a lager there!
 
Really?! Cool, that would save me an hour of driving to get the yeast! Nice. So the yeasties aren't affected by the temp that much? Are they stressed out? Should I bump this up to 2 L, or does that look like enough? I was planning on cold crashing it and dumping the wort and just using the yeast, so maybe I just stick it in the fridge now and when I brew on Sunday, I'll just decant and just use the yeast.
 
It really doesn't matter what temp you ferment your starter at. You make a starter to reproduce more yeast, NOT to drink the starter beer. It doesn't matter if the beer on top has off flavors from too high of a fermentation, just decant most or all the liquid off before pitching the yeast.
 
it really doesn't matter what temp you ferment your starter at. You make a starter to reproduce more yeast, not to drink the starter beer. It doesn't matter if the beer on top has off flavors from too high of a fermentation, just decant most or all the liquid off before pitching the yeast.
100%
 
I know that they say Star San breaks down and becomes something yeast can eat, but what about before it breaks down? I would have thought something with a pH of 3-3.5 would kill yeast on contact.
 
I know that they say Star San breaks down and becomes something yeast can eat, but what about before it breaks down? I would have thought something with a pH of 3-3.5 would kill yeast on contact.

What I've read on these forums is that yeast is (truly) washed using a high acid solution (near 2.2 pH) that kills most wild bugs/bacteria and, although it affects the yeast, leaves it mostly unharmed. Based on this understanding, I would assume a pH of >=3.0 would not be too detrimental to yeast at all considering they can survive for short periods at ~2.2.

I had never heard that yeast eventually use the star san as "food" so that's new to me.
 
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