steeping in a full boil

If I decide to do a full boil how will that effect my steeping? Will steeping in 5 gallons delute my steeping, or should I steep in a gallon of water before adding it to the total of 5 gallons, provided it calls for 1 gallon per 1lb of grain?

I often wonder about this myself for mini-mash... FWIW I've done a few batches and just steep in the full boil volume. I hit my expected gravity and get the expected flavor/color profile.

You would top it off with water if u did a 3gl boil so wouldn't that dilute it just as much?..................... I wouldn't make a difference IMO

I steep in the full boil. It just makes life easier.

Steeping is just dissolving sugars on the grains and rinsing them off. The larger the volume of water the more effective it will be.

If mashing ...... well that is something completely different.

i've read that a good rule of thumb is to steep 2 to 3 quarts of water per pound of steeping grains. is this really not necessary?

Using too much water will cause a higher ph and possible tannic flavor. Depending on the style of beer and the ph of your water to start with the higher ph could be more or less of a problem. At best you could easily expect less mouth feel or a thinner sensation with the final beer. Stick with the 1 and 1/4 to 1 and 1/3 qt of H2O per lb of grain. The other problem that you run into if you use all your H20 in you partial mash or extract steep is that you have nothing to sparge with.

badhabit said:

Using too much water will cause a higher ph and possible tannic flavor. Depending on the style of beer and the ph of your water to start with the higher ph could be more or less of a problem. At best you could easily expect less mouth feel or a thinner sensation with the final beer. Stick with the 1 and 1/4 to 1 and 1/3 qt of H2O per lb of grain. The other problem that you run into if you use all your H20 in you partial mash or extract steep is that you have nothing to sparge with.

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Yep. I do ~1 gal of water per pound of grain. Then rinse with a quart or two of 170*+ water even if I'm just steeping specialty grains.

thanks for the tip guys!

Calder said:

Steeping is just dissolving sugars on the grains and rinsing them off. The larger the volume of water the more effective it will be.

If mashing ...... well that is something completely different.

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+1. for steeping, the volume is irrelevent since its just a rinse and sparging of it is entirely unnecessary.

badhabit said:

Using too much water will cause a higher ph and possible tannic flavor. Depending on the style of beer and the ph of your water to start with the higher ph could be more or less of a problem. At best you could easily expect less mouth feel or a thinner sensation with the final beer. Stick with the 1 and 1/4 to 1 and 1/3 qt of H2O per lb of grain. The other problem that you run into if you use all your H20 in you partial mash or extract steep is that you have nothing to sparge with.

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I agree...I think I read that 1 gallon per pound was recommended, anymore water than that has potential to extract tannins.

So, there no such thing as a full boil- if steeping in a full boil will result in a thinner body sensation and possible tannic flavors? Seems like lots of conflicting ideas.

thinner body, no; possible tannins, maybe. like has been mentioned, cuz of the thinner water the pH will be higher and increases the risk of extracting tannins at high temps. under 1 gal/ lb is ideal, but with how little grain is used in a steep, im not sure you'd detect the amount of tannins that could be extracted.

if the water to grain ratio is not right, then the ph will be off, possibly extracting tannins. that said, i didn't know that the whole time i was doing extract (full boils) and i steeped mine with 5 gallons and never got any tannins. YMMV

dcp27 said:

+1. for steeping, the volume is irrelevent since its just a rinse and sparging of it is entirely unnecessary.

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Not really.

Tannin extraction is directly related to PH which is directly related to steeping volume.



Read this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/steeping-grains-full-boil-extract-250336/

It has a few sources regarding tannin extraction as described above.




OP, to answer your question regarding dilution: steep in the recommended volume of water, add it to your kettle, then top up to achieve desired boil volume. ie. if steeping with 1 gal. of water, add it + 4gal. for a total of 5gal. boil volume.

I made a dipstick in 1gal. increments to take the guesswork out of this (of course, it must be specific to your boil kettle since shapes vary.) After adding the steeping water, I just top up with plain water to whatever boil volume I need as marked on the dipstick.

I only do full boils and have tried steeping grains both in 3 gallons and topped off and the full 6.5 gallons for a 5 gallon batch with the same duplicate recipe and there was no noticeable difference in the batches.

dcp27 said:

+1. for steeping, the volume is irrelevent since its just a rinse and sparging of it is entirely unnecessary.

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yes...volume is irrelevant...along with tannin extraction. you shouldn't be steeping in anything over 155 anyway...your just taking off color and some sugars.

Thanks for the all the replies, it makes sense to me that the volumn shouldn't matter since you wouldn't be boiling any the grain past 155 degrees, just the "tea water" after the grains are removed.

Tannin extraction is from ph not temperature. How else would decoction mashing work?

mcaple1 said:

yes...volume is irrelevant...along with tannin extraction. you shouldn't be steeping in anything over 155 anyway...your just taking off color and some sugars.

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oilcan said:

Thanks for the all the replies, it makes sense to me that the volumn shouldn't matter since you wouldn't be boiling any the grain past 155 degrees, just the "tea water" after the grains are removed.

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Temperature does play a role, just as water ph does.

rycov said:

Tannin extraction is from ph not temperature. How else would decoction mashing work?

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Bingo.

I'm reading through "How to Brew" right now and just saw this. Palmer recommends steeping in no more than 1 gallon per 1 pound of specialty grain. So, if you're doing an extract batch, and it calls to steep grains for 30 minutes, assuming the grains are 1 lb, steep in 1 gallon of water, and then add water to bring up boil volume. This is the latest edition of the book so I would think this information is somewhat current. I used to just fill my pot to 3 gallons, steep the grain, and then from there add the extract, hops, etc. I will try this method next time and see if it produces better results.

From "Brewing Classic Styles" by Jamil and John Palmer for further affirmation:

"For best flavor results, the ratio of steeping water to grain should be less than 1 gallon per pound. This will help keep the PH below 6 and minimize tannin extraction in alkaline water."

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Check out this too. http://***********/resources/troubleshooting Scroll to "Puckering, tea like quality" and read about steeping volume.

And this: http://***********/component/resour...er 2005/10-10-steps-to-better-extract-brewing Scroll down to "Got Grains?"


In all instances, extract brewing is referenced. PH is not something solely for concern in AG brewing.

This even holds true for sparging (yes, in extract brewing) and even LESS water is recommended in that case as referenced in one article above.



This really isn't a matter of opinion. As you can see, there's evidence to support the direct correlation between steeping volume and tannin extraction. Tannin extraction is directly related to PH which is directly related to steeping volume.





It may be easier to just throw the grains into the full volume, but you will not be making the best beer possible this way.

Thanks Nefarious 1 and Rycov for the replies, I wasn't looking to do it easier, but better. I've never done a full-boil and everything I've read seems to state that this would make a better beer, but I wasn't sure about the steeping.

This is a great web-site for beginners like myself.

If anyone ever has a doubt, just ask, there is always someone to help.

Thanks.