Mead vs Beer

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r8rphan

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Never made or even tasted mead before.. I have a friend who is asking me if I can make him some...

And since I've been curious about the stuff anyways, I told him 'maybe'

So I'm wondering what the difference is in process between making mead and Ale...

It is called a 'braggot' and uses Lalvin D-47 yeast..

What temp does this yeast ferment at? How long does mead need to ferment, and how long does it need to condition and at what temperature?

How vigorous is the ferment? Do I need to account for more krausen head space and blowoff that I typically have with my IPA's?

Is the brew process basically the same as beer?

Thanks
:mug:
 
Never made it, but a friend do and gives me some every now and then. Great stuff. He makes oaked dry mead and mel-o-mel with raspberries. I sure do like it better than wine.
 
Mead has much more of a wine taste than a beer taste....the process is a bit different than beer (easier). the process that I normally follow and get good results is heat good clean water to 120F and mix your honey in add yeast nutrients (need nutrients because unlike beer, fermenting honey is a little harder for the yeast to ferment.) Add acids or acid blends depending on the recipe. (for flavor)
then cool and pitch your rehydrated yeast. let sit for a month or so in primary then secondary to clear, bottle and put on the shelf until it starts tasting good..(takes about 6 months do get to the drinkable stage then it only gets better from there (a year or so)

You mentioned that your buddy wants to make braggot which is a mix of beer and mead I have never made one so the process would more than likly be a bit different.
 
This is the recipe he gave me that he got somewhere off the interweb...

Hefty Braggot: From " The Complete Mead Maker"
This is an all-grain recipe for those familar with all-grain brewing. This is a big ale-mead, meant for cool fall nights. The head is rich, dense, and creamy, and the aroma is so profound it will push it's way into your nose after each swallow. The flavor is caramelly sweet, with the honey and malt hanging on your tongue alongside the hop bitterness in a long-lived aftertaste. It goes beautifully with hearty meat dishes like staekpie or pot raost, but will also complement spicey dishes, particularly. Mexican food.
If you are a hop lover, you can virtually double the amount of hops in this recipe. The body will stand up to it, and though the sweetness/bitterness balance will be aggressive when young (6-9 months!), it will mellow to a low roar over the course of a year. This braggot-de-garde is definitely one that can be cellard for two years or more without any appreciable loss of appeal.

Makes 5 gallons (18.93 L)
8 lbs. pale ale malt, crushed
2 lbs. Vienna malt, crushed
1 lb. dextrin malt, crushed
3 oz. Cascade hops (25 IBU) 60 min.
1 oz. Cascade hops (8 IBU) 30 min.
1 0z. Cascade hops, 2 min
9 lbs. honey-one with a big aroma. or a blend of several varietes
2 tsp. yeast energizer
2 tsp. yeast nutrient
10 g Lalvin D-47 yeast, rehydrated
. OG: 1.120
. FG 1.018
I use an infusion mash. Mash in grains with 11 quarts water at 180 F, hold at about 146 F, rest 30 minutes, test for starch conversion. Heat to 165 F to mash out. Sparge with 3.5 gallons at 185 F. Sparge directly onto bittering hops in boil kettle. Boil 60 min, adding hops as scheduled. After 60 min, cut heat, add yeast energizer and nutrient, honey. and stir. Chill to 70 F, transfer to fermenter, aerate vigorously, pitch yeast.

Extract Alternative Method
Those seeking to use extracy can substitute 6 pounds of amber DME, add water to 5 gals, and proceed with the boil.
Make sure you use a fermenter with plenty of head space. Bottle with 3/4 cup of corn sugar or ked and carb.
 
r8rphan said:
What temp range does it ferment at?
Click to expand...

Should ferment at the same temps as beer 62-68f


thats a good lookin recipe! I would deffinatly agree with the text, put the honey in at knockout or even after its cooled a little bit 150f-ish, boiling honey destroys the flavor.
 
Is there any danger of bacteria in the honey causing infection by letting it cool to 150f-ish?

And although I've never tried mead.. that recipe sounds good to me too...

Although the hops seem a little on the light side for that much alcohol...

I wonder if dry hopping is good with mead?
 
iparks81 said:
Should ferment at the same temps as beer 62-68f
Click to expand...

This answer is completely dependent on which yeast you are using. Some can be fermented at much higher temps. Always check the recommendations for your yeast. In the case of D47, your target temp is between 59-68 degrees.
 
r8rphan said:
Is there any danger of bacteria in the honey causing infection by letting it cool to 150f-ish?
Click to expand...

Not really. I like the idea of adding after you cool the wort down a bit. Adding at knockout will cook off some of the more delicate flavor compounds.
 
In the recipe, it says to "test for starch conversion"...

What is this? Is this just using a sample and a drop of iodine? Or is it some sort of measurement that has to be taken? Or is it something that is unnecessary?

Doesn't checking OG kinda tell you if you've extracted the sugars?
 
Also, it says to 'mash out' @ 165 degrees... I have no way to reheat the mash.. I use a cooler and batch sparge...


When making beer, I usually just ignore that instruction when it appears.. Is this something I have to pay attention to? If I do, can I just add boiling water to try and bring the temp up (although it might be difficult to bring it up that much)?
 
Your exactly right the testing for conversion is just an iodine test... I never test it that way kind of optional if you ask me

If you want to mash out just add hot ( nearly boiling) water to the mash until you reach your desired temp but that's another one that I normally ignore with no negative effects on the beer.
 
Some answers: Anything with malt proteins will krausen. Yes, you can add boiling water to mash out, just reduce the volume of your sparge water accordingly..

Could do me a favor in the future and not post recipes from the book to brewing forums without permission?

Thanks,
Ken
 
Just for clarification - this a a Braggot (or Bracket) recipe, not a Mead recipe, they are different things.

Mead is honey wine where all (or almost all, i.e. fruit) of your fermentables come from Honey, and it is not carbonated, no hops are added.

Braggot (or Bracket) is where 50% or more of your fermentables come from Honey, it is typically carbonated, hops may or may not be used.

I'm suprised the Mead guys didnt jump all over you :)

BTW be prepared for some vigerous fermentation early on, either use a larger fermentation vessel or a blow off tube. Also fermentation may take longer than you are used to.
 
KenSchramm said:
Could do me a favor in the future and not post recipes from the book to brewing forums without permission?

Thanks,
Ken
Click to expand...

Sorry.. The guy just sent me the recipe he quoted from another forum (northern brewer).. He's never brewed, and I didn't really notice the book part..

I'll try and pay more attention.. Man it was only about 4 decades ago or so that I was saying that to the teacher.. Still haven't learned...
:mug:
 
Just for clarification... I brew beer and just checking this out... But the mashout at 165 means for insance

Put 5 gal of 155 in your mash tun for an hour, DRAIN it all out the the mashout is hotter water (usually around 170) you pour into grains and let sit for 10 min and drain. This washes excess sugars from grain and is pretty important...

You can also have the mashout water draining into the tun at the same rate its draining out... Either way, it's not something you wantto skip or overlook... At least with beer

Great thread though. I'm buying a new Carboy dedicated to mead :)
 
Bhunter87 said:
Just for clarification... I brew beer and just checking this out... But the mashout at 165 means for insance

Put 5 gal of 155 in your mash tun for an hour, DRAIN it all out the the mashout is hotter water (usually around 170) you pour into grains and let sit for 10 min and drain. This washes excess sugars from grain and is pretty important...

You can also have the mashout water draining into the tun at the same rate its draining out... Either way, it's not something you wantto skip or overlook... At least with beer

Great thread though. I'm buying a new Carboy dedicated to mead :)
Click to expand...

Are you saying mashout is the same as a sparge rinse?

I was under the impression that mash out was where the temperature was raised just prior to draining the original mash...
 
SPR-GRN said:
Just for clarification - this a a Braggot (or Bracket) recipe, not a Mead recipe, they are different things.

Mead is honey wine where all (or almost all, i.e. fruit) of your fermentables come from Honey, and it is not carbonated, no hops are added.

Braggot (or Bracket) is where 50% or more of your fermentables come from Honey, it is typically carbonated, hops may or may not be used.

I'm suprised the Mead guys didnt jump all over you :)

BTW be prepared for some vigerous fermentation early on, either use a larger fermentation vessel or a blow off tube. Also fermentation may take longer than you are used to.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all that.. I use 6.5G carboys and a 1" blow off tube during all of primary fermentation no matter the OG of the beer involved...

Would that be sufficient?

I guess the extra ferment time you're talking about is why the instructions say to leave in the primary fermenter for at least a month...

And you answered the question I was about to ask.. That should I force carb this the same way I always do?

So Braggot is really a 'beer' then, and not a mead?
 
r8rphan said:
Are you saying mashout is the same as a sparge rinse?

I was under the impression that mash out was where the temperature was raised just prior to draining the original mash...
Click to expand...

So check it out. The mash is the First part. You can either do a continuos sparge when draining your mash,which is hard unless you can keep your sparge water at the same temp, or you can drain all your wort out of the grain and add in the sparge water at the end. People will argue either way which is better. That whats up
 
I understand the difference between fly sparge and batch sparge.. but you seem to be suggesting that mash out is the same thing...

Whereas, everything I've heard or read seems to imply that it is about raising the temperature of the wort 'back up' to just under 170 degrees before draining the original water added to the tun in the beginning (before sparging)..

IOW, say your mash is supposed to be 154 degrees for an hour.. but you're supposed to 'mash out' at 168 degrees? I've always understood this to mean that you're supposed to raise the temperature of the original mash to 168 degrees.. not drain it and add 168 degree water.. as that would just be a 168 degree sparge...

Then again, Ive seen so much confusion of the terms 'primary and secondary', I shouldn't be surprised that I'm now feeling a bit confused about this..

I eventually got that straightened out.. and I will this too...
 
Bhunter87 said:
So check it out. The mash is the First part. You can either do a continuos sparge when draining your mash,which is hard unless you can keep your sparge water at the same temp, or you can drain all your wort out of the grain and add in the sparge water at the end. People will argue either way which is better. That whats up
Click to expand...


So check it out...

From "How to Brew" by John J Palmer... Page 180..

What is Mash-out?

Before the sweet wort is drained from the mash and the grain is rinsed (sparged) of the residual sugars, many brewers perform a mash-out. Mash-out is the term for raising the temperature of the mash to 170 degrees F (77 degrees C) prior to lautering. This step stops all of the enzyme action (preserving your fermentable sugar profile) and makes the grain bed and wort more fluid.

It goes on.. but you get the gist..

So check it out..

I suggest you buy the book "How to Brew" by John J Palmer, and then read it... It will familiarize you with the terms and techniques of home brewing, so that at the ripe old age of 23 you don't cop a tude and treat people with nearly two and a half times the life experience as yourself ( do you even shave yet?) like they're stupid... or at least if you 'do'.. you'll know what in the hell you're talking about...

I do believe that I just PWN'd the Noob! :D
 
r8rphan said:
So check it out...

From "How to Brew" by John J Palmer... Page 180..

What is Mash-out?

Before the sweet wort is drained from the mash and the grain is rinsed (sparged) of the residual sugars, many brewers perform a mash-out. Mash-out is the term for raising the temperature of the mash to 170 degrees F (77 degrees C) prior to lautering. This step stops all of the enzyme action (preserving your fermentable sugar profile) and makes the grain bed and wort more fluid.

It goes on.. but you get the gist..

So check it out..

I suggest you buy the book Video Link: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_26?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=how+to+brew+by+john+palmer&x=0&y=0&sprefix=how+to+brew+by+john+palmer, and then read it... It will familiarize you with the terms and techniques of home brewing, so that at the ripe old age of 23 you don't cop a tude and treat people with nearly two and a half times the life experience as yourself ( do you even shave yet?) like they're stupid... or at least if you 'do'.. you'll know what in the hell you're talking about...

I do believe that I just PWN'd the Noob! :D
Click to expand...

Touché

Sure glad I'm not 50 getting his giggles from sitting around quoting people instead of doing and learning on his own. You're all grown up and think it's okay to make people feel stupid when in reality, in every aspect of life, I'm superior, except maybe the amount of wrinkles...

Before you go to "pwning"??? Anyone else, think about how cool you look.

I was just trying to help man. I pray I don't end up like you, getting my jollies from proving people wrong in pixels... Seems like you've got your life all figured out buddy. Gratz

Blake
 
Bhunter87 said:
Touché

Sure glad I'm not 50 getting his giggles from sitting around quoting people instead of doing and learning on his own. You're all grown up and think it's okay to make people feel stupid when in reality, in every aspect of life, I'm superior, except maybe the amount of wrinkles...

Before you go to "pwning"??? Anyone else, think about how cool you look.

I was just trying to help man. I pray I don't end up like you, getting my jollies from proving people wrong in pixels... Seems like you've got your life all figured out buddy. Gratz

Blake
Click to expand...

Blake.. My apologies if you were being serious... Your post came across to me as if you were mocking me.. talking down to me like I was stupid... It seemed extremely sarcastic... But perhaps I misread the tone..

But this is the problem with the internet sometimes...
It's all good... Thanks for taking the time to try and help..
:mug:
 
bkwing said:
Not really. I like the idea of adding after you cool the wort down a bit. Adding at knockout will cook off some of the more delicate flavor compounds.
Click to expand...

I just realized (DOH! Smacks head).. I use a counterflow chiller to cool the wort on it's way to the fermenter... So there's no way to add the honey at 150 degrees, except maybe letting it sit there for several hours..

Will it make a huge difference if I add the honey after flame out and immediately stir it and send it through the chiller?

Will most of the flavor profile of the honey remain?..
 

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