set and forget carbing

I normally force carb but i am attempting to slow my drinking down so this time i will let it sit and see how it goes. My question is this, my corny is sitting with the co2 hooked up to the dip tube in my kegerator. the tank is on a little step but the liquid post is higher than the tank. As pressure equalizes will it backflow into the co2 tank?

kosmokramer said:

I normally force carb but i am attempting to slow my drinking down so this time i will let it sit and see how it goes. My question is this, my corny is sitting with the co2 hooked up to the dip tube in my kegerator. the tank is on a little step but the liquid post is higher than the tank. As pressure equalizes will it backflow into the co2 tank?

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First, you should have check valves so it can't no matter what! You must have your gas on the "in" tube.

But if you have the co2 turned on, the gas coming out will not allow the liquid to flow up into the gas tube. The liquid should be below the gas tube, of course. The pressure in the keg should never exceed the psi you have on the gauge. So, in short, no, you won't get beer back into the gas line. Unless you do something weird like shake the keg or allow the beer to cover the "in" diptube.


PS- even the "set it and forget it" method is force carbing. It's how I force carb, as a matter of fact. The idea of "force carbing" isn't to abuse and shake the beer- it's simply applying co2 to beer to cause carbonation. That's done instead of adding priming sugar, for example. I force carb all the time- at 12 psi in my kegerator.

Why is the gas hooked up to out liquid out post?

Yep, if for some reason the pressure in the tank falls below the keg, it will slowly push beer into the tank. Nasty. I say keep the co2 hooked to the in port.

PoppinCaps said:

Yep, if for some reason the pressure in the tank falls below the keg, it will slowly push beer into the tank. Nasty. I say keep the co2 hooked to the in port.

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Oh, yes. If someone put the gas on the "out" port (very silly, if you ask me), there is a good chance for a blown regulator once the pressure equalizes!

A lot of people think you get better CO2 absorption by bubbling the CO2 up from the bottom by hooking to the out-line.
Problem is the bubbles go so fast to the surface that the absorption is negligible. Using one of those airstone diffusers would make a difference, but I'm guessing the OP didn't take that extra step, so its not really doing anything special.

Nope sure didnt have the diffuser, im pretty new to brewing and i thought i had read that carbing from the out was the way to go. I just switched back though. Thanks for all the responses

kosmokramer said:

Nope sure didnt have the diffuser, im pretty new to brewing and i thought i had read that carbing from the out was the way to go. I just switched back though. Thanks for all the responses

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No, it's a really dumb and ineffective thing to do. I think some people have done it, but it won't work any faster anyway because the bubbles are too large to diffuse into the beer any faster than in through the "in" line.

If you had a carbonation stone and could make the bubbles smaller, then it would have potential. But it's not done through the "OUT" line anyway- it's done on a stone usually dropped in and hung from the lid.

Yooper said:

No, it's a really dumb and ineffective thing to do. I think some people have done it, but it won't work any faster anyway because the bubbles are too large to diffuse into the beer any faster than in through the "in" line.

If you had a carbonation stone and could make the bubbles smaller, then it would have potential. But it's not done through the "OUT" line anyway- it's done on a stone usually dropped in and hung from the gas in line.

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Fixed

Yooper said:

No, it's a really dumb and ineffective thing to do.

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i disagree.

-if you have check valves, then theres no danger in doing this.
-it takes no more effort than using the gas-in post
-agitating the beer = faster CO2 uptake

you arent causing much additional CO2 to be absorbed from the bubble itself, but what you are doing by bubbling it up from the bottom is agitating the liquid very slightly. theoretically it should take (however slightly) less time to carbonate with this method, than just putting pressure ontop of a totally stangnant, motionless liquid surface that is 3x deeper than the surface area.

how much more effective it is is up for debate, but you cant argue that its any less effective than using the gas-in post. if anything, it would be more effective. i see no reason not to do it, so long as you make sure liquid cant backfeed into the regulator.

audger said:

i see no reason not to do it, so long as you make sure liquid cant backfeed into the regulator.

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Here are some reasons:
* No need to switch the connections.
* It is possible to drink/taste while it is carbing up.
* As you said, it is not proven it is more effective.
* As you said, using the out post might stir the beer slightly, which should be avoided if you want everything to settle down and clear up.

so one of your reasons that this is dumb and ineffective is because its not proven to be more effective...? regardless of the fact that its definately no less effective?

how long does it really take you to screw on an MFL connection (which is moot because the OP is already doing this so he doesnt have to change anything)? do you need to be constantly sampling the beer before its ready?

the only valid point there is the sediment one, but its effect on that should be limited. personally, i have very little sedimate in anything that gets kegged. but for those that dont secondary their beer or cold crash in a carboy, you get maybe .5 inches of crap on the bottom. most dip tubes sit about half an inch off the bottom to begin with, and the CO2 bubble is really disturbing an area maybe 1" diameter around the dip tube bottom so not much should be kicked up. the floor of the keg would be the only area not disturbed very much by the bubble.

any other theories that actually support this being totally "dumb and ineffective"? i still havnt seen any...

audger said:

so one of your reasons that this is dumb and ineffective is because its not proven to be more effective...? regardless of the fact that its definately no less effective?

how long does it really take you to screw on an MFL connection (which is moot because the OP is already doing this so he doesnt have to change anything)? do you need to be constantly sampling the beer before its ready?

the only valid point there is the sediment one, but its effect on that should be limited. personally, i have very little sedimate in anything that gets kegged. but for those that dont secondary their beer or cold crash in a carboy, you get maybe .5 inches of crap on the bottom. most dip tubes sit about half an inch off the bottom to begin with, and the CO2 bubble is really disturbing an area maybe 1" diameter around the dip tube bottom so not much should be kicked up. the floor of the keg would be the only area not disturbed very much by the bubble.

any other theories that actually support this being totally "dumb and ineffective"? i still havnt seen any...

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Regarding "dumb and ineffective", you are quoting someone else, so don't get too excited, please.

You were clearly stating that you were seeing NO reason for using the in post. I gave you some valid ones, respectfully, and you ***** at me ? Some people really need to relax....

Cheers, and no hard feeling

iaefebs said:

Fixed

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Perhaps not. Maybe Yooper meant exactly what she wrote: you can build or buy a keg lid that has a down tube with an air stone at the end meant for carbonating in the keg. The top side has a gas post. I've seen them in my LHBS but as I don't do the "fast carb" thing anyway they've merely been a curiosity...

Cheers!

Liquid will not backflow up the line as the keg equalizes. The keg will only reach the same pressure as the regulator, never more than that. For the beer to backflow the pressure in the keg will have to be greater than the pressure from the regulator. To reiterate, liquid will not flow unless there is a pressure *differential*

The risk is that you set the pressure in the keg super high to quickly force carb (eg 30 psi). You then set the regulator to serving pressure and find beer traveling up the gas line.

Of course all this assumes that the keg is on its side (eg for rolling it) or the gas is hooked to the beer dip tube.

I routinely hook the gas to the beer dip tube and shake to force carb in a hurry. I do this at serving pressure and do not reduce the pressure after that. The beer does not backflow up the gas line using this method.

Edit: it's not rocket science. A carb stone sounds nice but they're expensive and another piece of equipment to clean and sanitize. Does hooking the gas to the beer dip tube help? I think so, but even if it doesn't then there is still no harm in doing so if you exercise a modicum of common sense.

Here is the golden rule of force carbing: never ever force carb using greater than serving pressure. Ever.