Low efficiency, but it just doesn't make sense!

10.25 lbs of 2 row, 1 lb crystal 60.

Mashed spot-on at 152 for 1 hour, got first runnings, did a two step batch (with 5 minute soak) sparge with 190 degree sparge water, which raised grain bed temp to 166-167 degrees both times.

Boiled down from 6 gallons to 5, hoped for 1.059 and I got 1.050.

What happened? This just does not make sense, since I've gotten better efficiency in the past with less perfect temps.

I was so happy that I thought I finally figured this whole all grain thing out, then I was so dissapointed when I was almost a whole point off.

BTW, I stir the crap out of my grain, so dough balls are not a possible culprit.

how are you crushing?

When you add the sparge water, do you stir?
That makes a great deal of difference

-a

I'm using the pre-milled option from Austin Home Brew, and yes, I'm stirring!

It wouldn't hurt to test your hydrometer in some distilled water @ 60-F and see what it reads. Mine started to really slip over the years... at the end, I had to add 0.020 to the readings to get it accurate.

--LexusChris

How fast are you sparging? I got a big efficiency bump (about 5%) by really taking my time and letting the sparge go very slowly instead of just cranking open the valve. Patience with the sparge is a necessity imo.

Batch sparging with valve open 100%... will try that hydrometer calibration

Id try batch sparging with the valve open 20%, it will take more time but your efficiency should improve a few points.

Most batch spargers go as fast as possible - throttling it back should really have no effect if you are doing it correctly.

I'd agree with double checking the hydrometer. I tossed one away that was off by almost an entire point.

samc said:

Most batch spargers go as fast as possible - throttling it back should really have no effect if you are doing it correctly.

Click to expand...

yeah I've never heard of slowing down a batch sparge before

I think we have a similar problem. I am fly sparging but otherwise the same. Next time I will try:
Smaller grain crush
Slower runoff when sparging
Sparge water temp 180-195
Mashout w/direct heat?

What else?

If slowing a batch sparge draining DOES increase efficiency it means that you weren't fully converted the previous times. This is where Kiaser's mash efficiency test is helpful.

Badmajon, what was your strike water volume and how much did you get out of your first runnings?

I struck with 3.5 gallons and I got about 2 gallons of first runnings

I've found that crush has more impact on efficiency than anything else when batch sparging. It's also very important to have accurate volume measurements in order to truly calculate efficiency. You might have gotten better efficiency than you think if the volume measurements were off a little.

AlaskaWortChiller said:

I think we have a similar problem. I am fly sparging but otherwise the same. Next time I will try:
Smaller grain crush
Slower runoff when sparging
Sparge water temp 180-195
Mashout w/direct heat?

What else?

Click to expand...

Do a mashout with near boiling water if you aren't already and keep the sparge water under 175 if you are using a cooler for a HLT. Coolers can't handle much more without warping and eventually cracking.

If you have proper conversion during the mash, the temp of the sparge water will have little to no effect on the efficiency. As BobbyM already pointed out, the same is true for the speed of draining the tun for batch spargers.

Kaiser did a test regarding sparge temps that came to same conclusion as my inadvertent cold water sparge.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/cold-water-sparge-110856/

What about a 90 min mash?
I'm no expert, but it might be worth a try (after evaluating your crush and calibrating hydrometer).

check your thermometer. bimetallic thermometers can be off by ~15 degrees. I've also noticed that when I seem to have lower or higher efficiency than usual, it's typically that I've boiled off more or less and my volumes are slightly off, and efficiency is dead on.

Okay, after reading the replies on here, the only place I may have gone wrong was the sparge time, and the Ph. I may have not sparged for the whole 60, perhaps it was 50 minutes. Would that make a difference? And what about water PH?

I'd guess your problem was either liquid volume measurements or a slightly off hydrometer. Your mash is supposed to be at 5.2 PH. I use 5.2 stabilizer and I seem to remember getting better mash efficiencies after I started using it. Might have been a coincidence though.

Different brands of base malt have slightly different fermentable levels too. Not sure it would account for that much difference though.