Sparging times???

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crlova2

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I have heard mixed things about how long to sparge. I have read that if you are batch sparging (what I do) you can just run it off with a fully open valve. However, I have also heard from reputable people that like with fly sparging it is important to sparge slowly with batch sparging. Any opinions? I don't wanna waste 60 minutes sparging a batch sparge if it isn't necessary but I DO want to spend the 60 minutes doing it if it is important to efficiency because right now my efficiency sucks.
 
Batch sparging can be done with the valve fully open, no need to go slow. Only fly sparging needs to be done slow. IIRC Palmer's book How To Brew suggests less than 1 quart a minute.
 
Anywhere between 30-60 minutes for a FLY sparge is good. I used to fly sparge and didn't get near the efficiency I do with batch sparging because I probably wasn't dragging it out as long.

With batch sparging, I just add the water, let the grainbed settle for about 5-10 minutes, then vorlauf and drain full speed. It's not absolutely neccessary to let the grainbed settle, but I feel like it helps.
 
just start the run off slow or it can pack down and get stuck. Once it's set you can open the valve all the way.
 
This is exactly what I have heard in the past but today I called Austin homebrew and was talking to a guy that sounded very knowledgeable for about 30 minutes about random brewing questions I had. This discussion came up and he got all scientific about how it is still pretty important to drain for about an hour even with batch sparging due to the pressure and flow routes of the wort coming out of the mash tun when the valve is completely open and initially very sugary water comes out (briefly) but when routes of least resistance are formed basically all the low sugar content water flows through leaving a lot of the good wort in places where the flow is minimal due to the valve being totally open . It was confusing and much more scientific sounding then what I just put but he sounded adamant about it. Any other opinion on what he was saying? I am not saying he is right or wrong I am just trying to gather other opinions.

Thanks
 
Batch sparge once and when the wort is all drained out, dig around in the grain bed and see if there are any pockets of wort. My money is on the fact that there won't be any, if your technique is anything close to good. Drained is drained. Add your 2nd or 3rd sparge water (if you do a 2nd or 3rd sparge) and repeat. Scientific sounding or not, I don't think what he says will line up with reality too well.
 
This is exactly what I have heard in the past but today I called Austin homebrew and was talking to a guy that sounded very knowledgeable for about 30 minutes about random brewing questions I had. This discussion came up and he got all scientific about how it is still pretty important to drain for about an hour even with batch sparging due to the pressure and flow routes of the wort coming out of the mash tun when the valve is completely open and initially very sugary water comes out (briefly) but when routes of least resistance are formed basically all the low sugar content water flows through leaving a lot of the good wort in places where the flow is minimal due to the valve being totally open . It was confusing and much more scientific sounding then what I just put but he sounded adamant about it. Any other opinion on what he was saying? I am not saying he is right or wrong I am just trying to gather other opinions.

Thanks

I haven't seen it, but a member of our brewclub mentioned a recent BYO article that he may be referencing. I just assumed the article was talking about fly sparging instead of batch, b/c the member who told me isn't an all-grain brewer and wasn't for sure. Regardless, the rationale above doesn't make much sense to me in terms of batch sparging. I only have about .35 gallons of wort left in the mash tun after the sparge so I too much high sugar isn't getting lost anyway. Certainly not enough for me to add another 45-90 minutes to my brew day!
 
Alright, when you do multiple sparges do you use less strike water? I feel like if you split the normal sparge water amount into 2 or three the it will be extremely thick and not dissolve well? I have never done it though so maybe that is me being paranoid. Any tips on doing multiple sparges?
 
Alright, when you do multiple sparges do you use less strike water? I feel like if you split the normal sparge water amount into 2 or three the it will be extremely thick and not dissolve well? I have never done it though so maybe that is me being paranoid. Any tips on doing multiple sparges?

Honestly, I just do the easy way and have Beersmith tell what volume to put in each. :eek:

Also, I have only ever done one sparge after draining off my initial mash-in volume. So, draining the mash tun three times or more seems overkill to me and would make for a thick mash as you suggest.
 
batch sparging, I've lately taken to opening the valve wide, and running it off at full speed. Only takes a few minutes, and I haven't seen any change to my efficiencies. Make sure, though, that you give your infusions a good 5 minute stir before you open the valve again, to dissolve all the available sugars in there.

I did find that I was starting to get some astringency in my beers, so I've been altering my processes slightly, and this was one of the things that helped. It is nice that it didn't affect efficiency.
 
I batch only.

I used to open full bore, but my wort just didn't clear nicely.

Now, I run at about 1/3 open. It takes about 7 minutes to drain 4 gallons, (when doing a double batch, I double batch sparge with 8 gal total, so 4 gal per sparge). I find at this slower rate that it makes much clearer wort and better beer.

So I say "slow" for any type of sparging.
 
This is exactly what I have heard in the past but today I called Austin homebrew and was talking to a guy that sounded very knowledgeable for about 30 minutes about random brewing questions I had. This discussion came up and he got all scientific about how it is still pretty important to drain for about an hour even with batch sparging due to the pressure and flow routes of the wort coming out of the mash tun when the valve is completely open and initially very sugary water comes out (briefly) but when routes of least resistance are formed basically all the low sugar content water flows through leaving a lot of the good wort in places where the flow is minimal due to the valve being totally open . It was confusing and much more scientific sounding then what I just put but he sounded adamant about it. Any other opinion on what he was saying? I am not saying he is right or wrong I am just trying to gather other opinions.

Thanks

This guy is talking about fly sparging. When you fly sparge you have to be careful with the rate and distribution to get even flow and avoid channeling.

When you batch sparge, the gravity of the liquid is equal throughout the grain bed. It doesn't matter how quickly your drain it or what pattern it drains in. As long as you drain it all out the efficiency will be the same.

That is all!
 
Ex-fly sparger, long-time batch sparger now. I have found that while you can quickly run off the batch sparges going a little slower does do two things for me. One, it improves efficiency a few percentage points because you are able to extract a few extra hundred cc's of wort out of the grain bed each time. Secondly I get much clearer wort and cleaner tasting beer. My sparges go directly into my boil kettle which I fire up immediately. As getting the ~7+ gallons of wort up to a boil is the rate limiting step I don't lose any time by taking 15-20 minutes for each batch sparge to run through.

GT
 
Alright, when you do multiple sparges do you use less strike water? ... Any tips on doing multiple sparges?

I double-sparge, and I just mash in with about 1.25 quarts of water per pound of grain, then divide the remaining pre-boil volume into two equal sparges. For example, yesterday I brewed a 5.5 gallon batch (7 gallons pre-boil) with 10.5 lbs. of grain. I mashed in with 3.375 gallons and ran off 2.5 gallons. Then I did 2 batch sparges of 2.25 gallons each to hit my desired pre-boil volume. Plenty of liquid for the grain in the sparges.
 
This is exactly what I have heard in the past but today I called Austin homebrew and was talking to a guy that sounded very knowledgeable for about 30 minutes about random brewing questions I had. This discussion came up and he got all scientific about how it is still pretty important to drain for about an hour even with batch sparging due to the pressure and flow routes of the wort coming out of the mash tun when the valve is completely open and initially very sugary water comes out (briefly) but when routes of least resistance are formed basically all the low sugar content water flows through leaving a lot of the good wort in places where the flow is minimal due to the valve being totally open . It was confusing and much more scientific sounding then what I just put but he sounded adamant about it. Any other opinion on what he was saying? I am not saying he is right or wrong I am just trying to gather other opinions.

Thanks

Sorry to say it, but this guy just didn't know what he was talking about. Fly sparging is a rinsing process and it's important to go slowly in order to avoid drilling down through the grain bed and channeling. But batch sparging is a draining process, where you get all the sugar into solution and drain it out. The explanation he gave you just doesn't work that way. Take it from me, I've experimented with this dozens of times. For more info, look for my article on batch sparging in the next issue of Zymurgy.
 
I batch only.

I used to open full bore, but my wort just didn't clear nicely.

Now, I run at about 1/3 open. It takes about 7 minutes to drain 4 gallons, (when doing a double batch, I double batch sparge with 8 gal total, so 4 gal per sparge). I find at this slower rate that it makes much clearer wort and better beer.

So I say "slow" for any type of sparging.

First of all, "clear" means free of chunks, not that you're able to read a newspaper through it! ;) And if you start out the runoff slowly, you should be able to open it up fully after the grain bed sets. For me, that takes a qt. or 2 of runoff, but it will vary depending on the type of lautering system you use.
 
First of all, "clear" means free of chunks, not that you're able to read a newspaper through it! ;) And if you start out the runoff slowly, you should be able to open it up fully after the grain bed sets. For me, that takes a qt. or 2 of runoff, but it will vary depending on the type of lautering system you use.

Clear means whatever I want it to :D.

I know some go by "chunkless", but if I run a bit slower, which adds maybe 10-15 minutes total to my brewday, I get it crystal clear throughout the sparge, (after vorlauf). I CAN read through it, as long as it isn't a stout or porter. I feel it gives me better, cleaner beer...

I found it never really went "clear", no matter how much I ran off (gallons) if I ran off at full tilt. But at 1/3 open, it clears in a quart or two, and I just let'er run.

I did this both with a PVC manifold in a cooler, and before that a SS braid in a pot. Same results. Before, when I ran wide open, even after vorlaufing a ton, my wort would have specks of stuff on the surface as it was coming up to a boil. With my 1/3 open method, it's beautifully clean, always.
 
If you like to have it that clear, go right ahead. I've never found that it makes any difference to the finished beer. Have you seen it make a difference? And like I said, if you start slow, until it clears, then you can open it up without issues.
 
If you like to have it that clear, go right ahead. I've never found that it makes any difference to the finished beer. Have you seen it make a difference? And like I said, if you start slow, until it clears, then you can open it up without issues.

Honestly, I haven't done a side by side comparison. Like I said, I "think" I make better beer. I at least feel better not having a scum of grain crap on top of my wort as I wait to come up to boil. I also found that if I go back to "wide open" after it clears, it clouds again :/
 
Honestly, I haven't done a side by side comparison. Like I said, I "think" I make better beer. I at least feel better not having a scum of grain crap on top of my wort as I wait to come up to boil. I also found that if I go back to "wide open" after it clears, it clouds again :/

I don't think it really makes a difference. Those BIAB guys probably have some mega cloudy worts and they still manage to make award wining beers.
 
just do some trial and error the old fashioned way. there's 1,000 different ways to do it and everyone thinks they know the best one, especially people who work at brew shops. try them all and pick your favorite.
 
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