Help me improve my efficiency?

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COLObrewer

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So, I downloaded a trial beersmith and plugged in the numbers for my last brew, set it up for a system with 15gal boil pot and 10 gal mash tun, etc, if for no other reason it is time to start working on our efficiency.

Beersmith says that if I had 75% eff., the OG should have been 1.071 (with projected FG of 1.020), my OG was at best (Refractometer) 1.058 after boil. So then I tweak the numbers on brewsmith, change the efficiency until the Est OG matches the actual OG and it says efficiency is 56%, it also changes the projected FG to 1.015.

You probably need more info to help me, so I’ll try to give out what I can.
Our process involves Single step infusion with english batch sparge (I think that’s what it’s called). We have a basic manual system with no pumping, gravity, or scooping and pouring everything as follows:
First we grind with the old feed grinder, it’s a large corona type mill.
Then we mash in trying to get close to 150F, which we have been able to do with no problems. We have typically only stirred during mash in, then we leave it for an hour. The cooler holds the temp well, temp will fall in the winter maybe 1-2 degrees. We have three thermometers, two hydrometers and refractometer we try to cross check with.
After an hour we drain the first runnings (we usually forget to vorlauf, but it is also usually clear anyway), still no more stirring, then sparge with water (appx. 185F) trying to get close to sparge temp of 170F in the bed, stir it in, wait a few minutes then drain that. We taste the final runnings of that sparge and if it’s still sweet, we sparge again and repeat until it’s not sweet. We do all this without much measuring of water, just “eyeballing” the thickness of the mash.

Keeping in mind I want to increase our efficiency, specific questions I have are:
1. Do we need to change the basic mashing process, if so, what?, automatic sparging? Step mashing? Etc?
2. Do we need to stir more?
3. Is the grinder up to spec? The grind looks good to me, dunno.
4. Do we need to measure the water? Etc?
5. Is this even a good way to check the efficiency? Is this brewhouse efficiency?
6. Anything else?

I hope this is posted in the right catagory, thanx for any help, Vern.:tank:
 
1. Do we need to change the basic mashing process, if so, what?, automatic sparging? Step mashing? Etc?
No, you can get good results with batch sparging. You just have to perfect your technique.

2. Do we need to stir more?
After you sparge it is a good idea to stir the mash vigorously.

3. Is the grinder up to spec? The grind looks good to me, dunno.
Can you post a photo of the ground up grain? That is the only way to tell. It is very likely that your crush is the reason for your low efficiency.

4. Do we need to measure the water? Etc?
How many quarts per pound of grain are you mashing with? You should always measure your water for everything.

5. Is this even a good way to check the efficiency? Is this brew house efficiency?
Yes, Beersmith is very accurate and gives you three types of efficiency; Brew house, into boiler and into fermenter.

6. Anything else?
Read these threads, there is some good information in them that you might find useful.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/attention-new-all-grain-brewers-30466/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/maximizing-efficiency-when-batch-sparging-77125/

Speaking from personal experience it takes a little while to dial in beersmith with your equipment. You can create a custom profile matching the specs of your equipment and account for things such as dead space, evaporation, cooling loss, lost to trub/chiller. These things are all taken into consideration by the program in order to help you reach your final volume of wort. How is your final volume?
 
I had a similar problem for a while, until I really slowed the sparge wayyy down. Channelling was killing me, apparently. I went from eff in the 50s to the 80s immediately. I also use a Corona mill, might need to adjust the crush a bit. Good luck.
 
Not a "Pro" like many here - but the one thing that stands out to me is your comment: ..."(we usually forget to vorlauf, but it is also usually clear anyway)...

I have done two AG batches (10 gallon igloo cooler converted to a MLT and a turkey frier) and the first batch was 65% efficiency into the fermentor. I had my grains crushed from the online supply shop and I thought the crush was not good (still had many whole uncracked grains). When I ordered the second batch I requested a finer crush, and I felt the crush I got the second time was perfect - not powder but mostly grain "pieces". This time the efficiency jumped up to 71%, but I noticed I had to vorlauf several times before it ran clear.

Maybe your grains are not crushed enough(?)
 
I think the 2 biggest areas for you to look at is mash thickness. You should have at least 1.25 quarts per pound of grain, and many people have had better efficency with a ration of 2 quarts per pound.

Your crush is also an area that may need improving.

It will help if you started measuring the amount of water you are using. Measuring will allow you to get repeatable results once you have improved your efficency.


Ed
 
Here's a picture of the grind, but it probably needs to be more of a closeup for you to tell?
3465642804_9e2aebf33b.jpg
 
close up might be good....From this angle, it looks like the crush *might be* alright (best way to tell is to make sure there's no intact husks in your bill). One other culprit for low efficiency is PH of your water (if it's extremely wonky).....but basic mash schedule/sparging may have a major effect if you're not doing it right. Assuming you are mashing/sparging with numbers beer smith gives you....the first thing I would check is that your thermometer is correct (I stay paranoid about thermometers and always have at least a couple).
 
Speaking from personal experience it takes a little while to dial in beersmith with your equipment. You can create a custom profile matching the specs of your equipment and account for things such as dead space, evaporation, cooling loss, lost to trub/chiller. These things are all taken into consideration by the program in order to help you reach your final volume of wort. How is your final volume?

We've had no final volume problems, however we just sparge until all sweetness is gone, have not had to extend any boiling to reduce volume. We do have larger fermentors that we sometimes utilize but usually we plan for that. I.E. double batches etc. Is the water per lb. figure for initial mash or for total mash/sparge volume? May need to adjust the amount for mash vs. sparge? We mash in till it looks like thick oatmeal, like this:
3464826671_9859d8921d.jpg
 
Wow...yeah, I see intact kernals.....that's probably your main culprit! With my setup, I have a false bottom and have found I can get a really fine crush. If you're using a braid, you probably can't get that fine, but you definitely should look for most all husks being split in half.

So I would do a finer crush and in your mash photo....I think for now you can also play it safe and use some more water for the mash. 2.0 qt/lb is pretty thin (and probably not something you want to do if you're batch sparging). I also like doing a protein rest....it's not necessary, but I still think I get some more consistant results with it.
 
If you're using a braid, you probably can't get that fine, but you definitely should look for most all husks being split in half.

Using copper manifold with slits, have never been close to stuck mash but if the grind is too coarse that is probably why, and also why we've been clear on the first runnings? Awesome trouble shooting skills guys!!:rockin:
 
I use a copper manifold with slits and I keep my Barley Crusher set at 0.025" which is finer than most who use the factory setting of 0.039". My last batch was a special bitter with an OG of 1.051 and I got a brewhouse 95% efficiency. My previous batches were 88% and 92% so every time I find another little way to increase my efficiency.

Definitely try grinding much finer than you currently are now.
 
Thanx, I knew I needed iodine for something. So if it's not complete, you just sparge more?
 
If your conversion is not complete then you mash longer until all the starch in the mash has been enzymatically converted into sugar (maltose, maltriose, etc).
 
Agreed, crush is bad

Try to thin your mash to 1.5-2.0 qts/lb

Use some buffer 5.2 for your PH

That will get you conversion.... then concentrate on the lauter to get the sugars out
 
Thanx guys, just read some of the forum links again, it's amazing what you miss first time around. Anyway, I've never played with iodine and couldn't seem to sift through the threads for that, where do you take the wort sample from? Does it matter? Just get a dripper in the mash anywhere? If it's not converted yet do you stir or just wait?
Thanx for your help, I'm hoping to utilize some more of the home malt for the base in a wee heavy, need to sort things out a little better, Vern.
 
Thanx for all your help fellows, We brewed a strong scotch ale yesterday and after tightening the grind and passing it through twice, along with measuring our water, we increased our efficiency to 81% according to refractometer and 86% according to hydrometer (depending on FG of course). We were able to hit volume without problem, our OG before boil was .02 higher than estimate, after boil was .10 higher than estimate. (Estimate was @75%eff) It's going to be a nice malty scotch ale after appx. 5 hrs of boil time, Thanx again!!

Edit: Still haven't figured out the iodine thing yet, is it not supposed to change the wort color at all when it's completely converted?
 
Briess 2 row - HAH! GOTCHA! oh yea, and Hugh Baird brown, Hugh Baird Crystal, some UK peated stuff and U.S. Chocolat. YUMMMM!
 
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