1st all grain, high og, low volume

I just brewed an oatmeal stout - my 1st all grain. I read in John Palmer's book that you should stop lautering when the wort coming out of the mash tun is 1.008. I did and started the boil at approx 6.11 gals. After the boil I ended up with far less than 5 gals and a OG of 1.070 - I was supposed to have 1.058 post boil. I already pitched the yeast and the brew has been in the carboy above half an hour. Should I add water to boost my volume and dilute the batch a little?

Meh, I'd say leave it alone. Diluting it can throw off the bitterness to maltiness balance (IBU:GU ratio.)

What is likely happening is you just need to learn how your system works. Every persons rig is going to work differently than the other guys. It just takes some time to lock in on your rigs idiosyncrasies.

It could be you need to use less sparge water, less mash-out water, boil at a slightly lower temperature... but I think you're just going to have to do trial and error.

Thanks - you're right about learning how ones own system works. I had my extract routine down after 5 batches, and it'll take a few all-grains to get the hang of it

I would add water to get to the correct OG. You won't be diluting the OG/IBU ratio at all- you'll be correcting it!

Thanks - you talked me into it - I added about a half gallon

I would have gone with what Reno said.... adding water after the boil is going to throw off the hops IBU's... too late

mrk305 said:

I would have gone with what Reno said.... adding water after the boil is going to throw off the hops IBU's... too late

Click to expand...

I don't understand how? Can you explain please? It seems to me if the recipe was designed for an OG of 1.058, and it comes in at 1.070, then adding water to the correct OG would FIX the SG/IBU ratio. How can it have "thrown off the hops IBUs?" I must be slow, because I can't figure it out. In my mind, the reverse is true. If you formulate a recipe for 1.058, and you hop to 1.058, ending up with an OG of 1.070 will throw off the hops.

I wouldn't want a 1.070 oatmeal stout- and when I first started AG I often topped up with water if I had an efficiency of 85% if I was expecting 70%! An OG that is too high is easily fixed with the water addition, and fixes both the SG/IBU ratio, the possiblity of a "too-boozy" beer, and gives a predictable result.

I just don't understand the reasoning behind this?

Yooper that is a very good point. My statement should have begun with "IIRC"

However wouldn't the lower boil-volume amount to less hop-utilization and thus maybe, by some chance, the IBUs were right on and diluting did in fact throw off the ratio? I'm not disagreeing, this is just how I worked it out in my mind.

I am not talking about the gravity of the beer. but of the bittering of the hops @ sparge
gallon. Are you really arguing with me about this?

I'm with Yooper but didn't add water. I'm going to see how it turns out. I did an all grain BIAB cream ale for SWMBO today. I smoked the efficiencies. WAY more than I ever expected too. Beersmith has got me at Brewhouse Efficiency: 94.27% and Efficiency into Boiler: 96.73%. This is only the second time I've used this system/setup and there's certainly a "getting acquainted" period.

So, estimated SG was 1.052 but I clocked in with 1.065 (adjusted for temp) into the fermenter, and though I thought about adding water, I'm going to let it ride and see how it comes out.

mrk305 said:

I am not talking about the gravity of the beer. but of the bittering of the hops @ sparge
gallon. Are you really arguing with me about this?

Click to expand...

WTF are you talking about???

SpecialK, 1065 seems high for a cream ale. Beer will be good, but not to style. Leading me to agree w/ Yoop. You are fixing the ratio, not screwing it up. Revvy estimates an increase of hops bill of 18% when he does 2.5-3 gal boils. Assuming that the OP's way lower than five gallons was at least 4 gallons, topping up to 5 would do little to screw up the balance of this recipe. Too high gravity on simple beers is a much bigger problem than utilization issues.

mrk305 said:

I am not talking about the gravity of the beer. but of the bittering of the hops @ sparge
gallon. Are you really arguing with me about this?

Click to expand...

I don't think I'm arguing with you, but I don't understand what you're trying to say!

All I'm saying is that the whole SG/IBU ratio is set up by the recipe. Both the OG and the IBUs are crucial. A few gravity points won't matter, of course. But when the OG is 1.072 instead of a planned 1.058, primarily due to less water (the boil volume was only 6.11 gallons instead of 7 gallons), more water can be added to bring the balance back. Just as if the water was added preboil.

TANSTAAFB said:

WTF are you talking about???

SpecialK, 1065 seems high for a cream ale. Beer will be good, but not to style.

Click to expand...

Totally agree, high for the style, if I wanted to be strictly in style. But, we decided to give it a go and see how it comes out.

Here's why I'm not sure diluting down fixes GU:BU:

If the original recipe is 5 gallons of 1.050 OG with 50 IBU, the GU:BU ratio is 1:1.

If you screw up and say boil down 10% more than expected and get 4.5 gallons at 1.055 with 50 IBU, you end up with a GU:BU of 55:50 or 11:10. The topoff volume will be .5 gallons. When you do that, you dilute the GU and BU equally so it never gets fixed. There's also the idea that the 10% higher gravity of the boil will reduce hop utilization but I don't think it's linear.

The question is, does IBU concentrate just like GU does? If so, forget everything I typed.

In either case, I'd still top up to correct the gravity/volume. In the future, you can top up the boil kettle with water to the correct preboil volume for your typical boil off. In other words, adding .5 gallons at the beginning of the boil would have been appropriate.

Bobby_M said:

The question is, does IBU concentrate just like GU does? If so, forget everything I typed.

Click to expand...

I was just reading a kit inventory sheet online for a double IPA and comparing the all grain and extract versions. The extract version called for boiling a separate hop tea alongside your brew kettle and adding the hops to that instead of the wort. I assume this is done to combat the low hop utilization at higher gravities (especially early in the boil). This tea is only a few quarts of water though, so the IBU will be very concentrated in this pot and then added to the main wort at the end of the boil, leaving me to assume that the concentration properties are very similar to GU, if not the same.

The kit I was looking at is Northern Brewer Double IPA:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/DIPA.pdf

Bobby_M said:

In either case, I'd still top up to correct the gravity/volume. In the future, you can top up the boil kettle with water to the correct preboil volume for your typical boil off. In other words, adding .5 gallons at the beginning of the boil would have been appropriate.

Click to expand...

I would have had enough in the boil if I would have lautered all the sparge water. I read in "How to Brew" that you should stop lautering when runoff falls below 1.008. I did and there was still maybe .5 gallons or more in the tun.

I had 6.11 gallons in the kettle at that point, which I though might be a little short, but I stopped anyway. Next batch I'll lauter longer and shoot for a kettle volume closer to 7 gallons.