Trogdor

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jway you need to read a new book that's out called:

"Marijuana is SAFER: So why are we driving people to drink?"

by:
Steve Fox [Marijuana Policy Project]
Paul Armentano [National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws]
Mason Tvert [Safer Alternative For Enjoyable Recreation]
with foreword by Norm Stamper [former Chief of the Seattle Police Department]

ISBN: 1603581448

david_42

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Nothing special about that plant. I've got hops that sport 1, 3 and 5 lobe leaves, and deeply lobed. Looks like you have multiple bines and a grunch of sidearms. They look fairly short and that narrows the possibilities, but not by much.

A hop bine isn't a vine. Vines can bind to other objects, but hops can only twine, so without something to wrap around, they get very bushy.

Of the nine hops I have, that looks closest to the Nuggett.

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jway

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I think I've heard about that book Trogdor. Doesn't it say something like alcohol kills 100,000 people every year while marijuana's never killed anybody?

That sounds like a good reason to give people a safer choice, but we already have abstinence as a choice and not many people take it. Personally, I think it's irrelevant whether marijuana's safer, the cartels have accumulated half a million men and murder six to seven thousand people a year all because we keep marijuana illegal.

It's as ludicrous as making candy illegal - sure theoretically it'd send the "right message" to make people safer, but it'd also encourage millions of us to simply switch to buying our candy from "friends", and it'd encourage criminals to produce and sell candy in order to get rich quick. The harms prohibiting candy would cause would be way out of proportion to any benefit it'd give us. Which is exactly what we've seen with the marijuana prohibition over the last seventy years.

Prohibition is the ideal policy for extremely deadly products with low consumer demand like weapons grade plutonium, but for widely popular products like beer, candy and marijuana it's a big mistake and destroys far more lives than it saves.

lmaa

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could it be Japanese hops, Humulus japonicus?

Japanese Hops
http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/fact/huja1.htm

eriktlupus

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sorry to dasappoint you but those are native american hops of the varietal neomexicanus here is a link to pictures from a trip throughout the mountanous west looking for hardy varieties. NCGR-Corvallis Hop Expedition 2002 scroll down and you'll see lots of pics that are deeply lobed like the one you have.

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Trogdor

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Hey I think you're right eriklupus! Thanks a lot, I've been wondering that since last year.

Do they make good beer?

jwhirry

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Sorry to be Off Topic, just this statement gets me a little riled.

I personally know of one person who went to prison for killing somebody with detectable amounts of THC. The man killed was my brother.

I am not angry with the poster, or anyone who wants to see it legalized.

The fact is laws prosecuting people for driving while intoxicated with alcohol have been on the books for quite a while. Wisconsin’s Operating with a detectable amount of controlled substance law is relatively new, but has been applied and upheld in this case. This nullifies legally and in my eyes the ‘Marijuana never killed anybody’ statement. Maybe THC will never kill anybody from overdose, but it has some of the same destructive potential when mixed with operating.

So just to be clear I am not debating what kills more or the safety of it, it is common knowledge that a large amount of lives are negatively affected by alcohol and tobacco, I am stating Marijuana can negatively impact lives also.

gunnyg

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[QUOTE=jway;1514683]I think I've heard about that book Trogdor. Doesn't it say something like alcohol kills 100,000 people every year while marijuana's never killed anybody?
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chumprock

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It doesnt look anything remotely relating to hemp.

Trogdor

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Well it's no Hibiscus cannabinus, but the leaf structure is arguably closer than that of Potentilla pulcherrima.

What the book says is: "According to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, the chronic use of booze is associated with approximately 35,000 deaths per year". It also says that cannabis alone has never directly killed anyone because "in moderate and even heavy doses, cannabinoids are virtually non-toxic to healthy cells and human organs".

It also explains, in 2 pages with 6 references, how "Marijuana intoxication plays, at most, a minor role in traffic injuries."


THE PROBLEM with Wisconsin's law is that it unfairly targets cannabis users by requiring that drivers with "a detectable amount of methamphetamine, gamma-hydroxybutyric acid, or delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol in his or her blood" be assessed additional penalties. NEWS FLASH: delta-9-THC can stay in your blood for up to a month. It's entirely possible that the guy who killed your brother (which is tragic and I'm sorry for your loss) wasn't even under the influence of cannabis at the time and got hosed into a harsher penalty. I don't know the circumstances. Even if he was, drivers who use cannabis and are significantly impaired are aware of their impairment, and if they decide to drive anyway and cause a death, well, there's already a law for that and it's called "negligent vehicular homicide". Would you be as pissed off at opiates if your brother was killed by Granny Arthritis nodding off? Would you be pissed at benadryl if Mr. Seasonal-Allergies drowsied his car into your brother's? Probably, and I'm sorry. Anyway, it's high time we stop legislating responsibility. If the punishment for negligent vehicular homicide isn't enough, then fix that law and leave us responsible cannabis users alone.


The intent of "Marijuana is SAFER" can be summed up pretty well by the following statement from pages 129-130:
"We can do this by explaining how the prohibition of marijuana, a recreational alternative that is less harmful than alcohol, is literally driving Americans to drink. In turn, the widespread - and encouraged - use of alcohol increases the likelihood of domestic abuse, sexual assault, and other forms of violence and is producing serious negative health outcomes, including overdose deaths. In other words, our current laws are perpetuating a society that is demonstrably less safe for our sons and daughters."


Here's 8 different articles on driving & cannabis (from Granny Storm Crow's list - email: i.wantgrannyslist@yahoo.ca ):

Abstracts of several studies
Cannabis Research - driving and testing

Cannabis and driving
Cannabis and driving

CANNABIS AND ROAD SAFETY
CANNABIS AND ROAD SAFETY: AN OUTLINE OF THE RESEARCH STUDIES TO EXAMINE THE EFFECTS OF CANNABIS ON DRIVING SKILLS AND ON ACTUAL DRIVING PERFORMANCE

Marijuana And Actual Driving Performance
Marijuana And Actual Driving Performance

Cannabis and Driving: A Scientific and Rational Review
Cannabis and Driving: A Scientific and Rational Review - NORML

Fitness to drive in spite (because) of THC
Unbound MEDLINE | [Fitness to drive in spite (because) of THC] Journal article

Drivers With THC in their Blood Have Only a Small Increased Risk to Cause an Accident
http://bbsnews.net/article.php/20051211175543874


The effect of cannabis compared with alcohol on driving.
Unbound MEDLINE | The effect of cannabis compared with alcohol on driving. Journal article