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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Hops Growing > Simcoe Hops
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:02 AM   #11
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Thank you for the replies. Guess Ill go with another type of hops. Found some Glacier and Horizon which I heard works well for IPAs too.

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Old 03-31-2013, 12:25 AM   #12
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I like centennial for bittering in my IPAs.

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Old 04-09-2013, 07:23 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Carlscan26 View Post
I guess I'm a spirit if the law vs letter of the law guy. Just because they won't come after you doesn't make it right for you to cheat the source.
Patents are actually meant to allow for private construction of an identical product. This is why patents require the full disclosure of design. They grant a monopoly within the market for that product, however. Patents are meant for suppression of competition. You'd be busted if you sold your homegrown Simcoe / rhizomes, for instance.

Whether living things should be patent-able is something else entirely.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:10 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molybedenum

Patents are actually meant to allow for private construction of an identical product. This is why patents require the full disclosure of design. They grant a monopoly within the market for that product, however. Patents are meant for suppression of competition. You'd be busted if you sold your homegrown Simcoe / rhizomes, for instance.

Whether living things should be patent-able is something else entirely.
That's quite the distortion.

Patents are the publication of a new device or process in exchange for a guaranteed period of exclusivity. There are three types of patents: utility, process and plants.

Go argue about the sentient-ness of plants somewhere else. Maybe you need to stop making beer since you're killing hop and barley plants. Never mind the yeast...

While you're at it, go read a patent on a plant. It doesn't describe taking an accidentally found rhizome head in a package you receive of hops and growing your own plant. Read the patent and spend the time and money and energy to follow it to make your own Simcoe plants. And yeah don't sell them. But oh wait, use of that product during the exclusivity period still violates the protections afforded by the patent. But hey who are you hurting? Just an evil grower who brought you such an awesome hop that you're now compelled to grow it by any means necessary?

Reference: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_breeders'_rights
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:11 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Carlscan26 View Post
That's quite the distortion.

Patents are the publication of a new device or process in exchange for a guaranteed period of exclusivity. There are three types of patents: utility, process and plants.

Go argue about the sentient-ness of plants somewhere else. Maybe you need to stop making beer since you're killing hop and barley plants. Never mind the yeast...

While you're at it, go read a patent on a plant. It doesn't describe taking an accidentally found rhizome head in a package you receive of hops and growing your own plant. Read the patent and spend the time and money and energy to follow it to make your own Simcoe plants. And yeah don't sell them. But oh wait, use of that product during the exclusivity period still violates the protections afforded by the patent. But hey who are you hurting? Just an evil grower who brought you such an awesome hop that you're now compelled to grow it by any means necessary?

Reference: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_breeders'_rights
L2R.

With these rights, the breeder can choose to become the exclusive marketer of the variety, or to license the variety to others.

This is purely for marketing purposes. For personal use, a patent is non-applicable. The issues that you see coming up with farmers and Roundup plants are due to them accidentally getting patented material via natural reproduction of their plants... but farmers also bring their product to market, and do not have those exclusive rights.

Even further down in this article is the explanation of the exemption for farm saved seed. Due to the fact that farmers do not bring the seed to market, they are exempted from the infringement claim.

My point stands: If for home use, it's non-infringing. That has always been the case with patents, and a major reason why they differ from copyrights.
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:09 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molybedenum

L2R.

With these rights, the breeder can choose to become the exclusive marketer of the variety, or to license the variety to others.

This is purely for marketing purposes. For personal use, a patent is non-applicable. The issues that you see coming up with farmers and Roundup plants are due to them accidentally getting patented material via natural reproduction of their plants... but farmers also bring their product to market, and do not have those exclusive rights.

Even further down in this article is the explanation of the exemption for farm saved seed. Due to the fact that farmers do not bring the seed to market, they are exempted from the infringement claim.

My point stands: If for home use, it's non-infringing. That has always been the case with patents, and a major reason why they differ from copyrights.
You've said multiple times that for personal use patents are not applicable. Let's see a reference please.
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:19 AM   #17
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I half hate to dig up this thread but I don't want to leave it out there unfinished and with a good bit of misguided and flat out wrong information.

I had a chance to talk to a friend of mine who is a patent attorney today. Here's what he sent me after we talked:

"So you're asking: 'can you use some patented invention as long as you're doing it at home in your garage for your own private use? Not selling anything or making money on it in any way?' Technically, if the claims of the patent are infringed, it would be patent infringement. There's no "private use" exception to patent infringement."

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Old 04-24-2013, 12:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlscan26
I half hate to dig up this thread but I don't want to leave it out there unfinished and with a good bit of misguided and flat out wrong information.

I had a chance to talk to a friend of mine who is a patent attorney today. Here's what he sent me after we talked:

"So you're asking: 'can you use some patented invention as long as you're doing it at home in your garage for your own private use? Not selling anything or making money on it in any way?' Technically, if the claims of the patent are infringed, it would be patent infringement. There's no "private use" exception to patent infringement."
You might want to ask that anonymous attorney friend for the most obvious follow-up question: "How about an example where somebody was successfully prosecuted for patent infringement where the defendant had no commercial activity?"

Never happened right? Kind gets down to "letter of the law" v.s. practically of the law.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H22W

You might want to ask that anonymous attorney friend for the most obvious follow-up question: "How about an example where somebody was successfully prosecuted for patent infringement where the defendant had no commercial activity?"
Theres nothing I can show to prove my friend is real and is a patent attorney. Lets see a reference to where its legal for personal use. I've searched and hence why I asked my supposedly anonymous friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H22W

Never happened right? Kind gets down to "letter of the law" v.s. practically of the law.
Yes I said that earlier too. But just because you don't get caught doesn't make it right or any less illegal. So the comment that it never happened is incorrect.

Update: he agrees its unlikely to be prosecuted if its even found out. Though posting on one of the busiest Internet forums about home brewing that you're growing a patented not for general sale hop plant may make discovery easy...regardless it's still illegal. I'm just trying to point out that the posts that its legal for home use to use a patent are incorrect. And this whole situation is pretty hypothetical anyway, but again, it's still illegal. Do what you want but at least be properly informed.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:53 AM   #20
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Sure is getting heated in here. Maybe we should create a law section on the forums for you guys.

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