compact soil?

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bengerman

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:off:my mystery hop has hops!
ok...they're tiny hops, nowhere near harvest, but onto the point of the post.

this plant has been showing signs of either potassium or phosphorus deficiency (i can't keep them straight...)
so i've been giving it 0-10-10 fertilizer to try to combat this. it's become an annoying cycle of notice deficiency, add fertilizer. signs of dificiency go away for 4-5 days, then come back.

the soil around this hop (it's in a planter) has become very compact, so i'm thinking this is causing the rapid nutrient loss.
does that sound likely?

secondly, if that is the likely root (no pun intended) cause, is there anything i can do about it during the growing season? or should i continue with the 0-10-10 and fix it during the dormant season?

my understanding is that peat moss is the best remedy for compact soil. i'm just worried that if i try to mix in some peat moss i'll damage the roots and or break the bine.
 
Rock phosphate is excellent to promote root and flower growth, but usually put in the ground in fall. Sand will also loosen as well as compost. If you do all grain make a compost pile and throw it in there. Liquid fertilizer is a quick fix but quickly washes away as well.
 
i have a compost bin already :ban: (bunch of big ol hippies at this house, i get lectured whenever i put compostables in the trash/yard waste)

the fertilizer i've been using is a liquid (moorbloom fish fertilizer, 0-10-10). so you're saying a dry fertilizer would have more "hang time"?

with compost/sand, i assume i'd be mixing it in with the existing soil, not just pacing it on top, correct? that's where i get worried, i really don't want to hurt the roots or bine, especially now that it has hops and burrs on it.

thanks for the quick reply!
 
Yeah, the rock phosphate is a pellet that dissolves over time. Greensand will add potassium but is $$. Liquids tend to build up some things and deplete others and can throw off ph. I'm not sure about the root system though. Maybe you could take the rhizomes for next year and then till it all in gently?? Just leave the main root ball. Do you get a frost there? I'm thinking about putting some in here in VA.
 
but it clears up and reverses with the 0-10-10. that has been making me assume deficiency.
EDIT: i should clarify, by reverses, i mean that new leaves and sidearms begin to grow where the damaged/fallen leaves were.

would pics help?

the other thing is that i have another bine (centennial) in a pot about 2 feet away (the tops of oth bines are actually touching/trying to tangle) with no signs of disease (i used a different potting soil and more compost when i planted it, it's also in a larger pot with less rhizomes)
so i figured that any disease probably would've spread to the centennial and it would be showing signs, too.

it's very possible i figured wrong on both counts, since this is my first venture into gardening.
 
UncleJohnnys said:
Yeah, the rock phosphate is a pellet that dissolves over time. Greensand will add potassium but is $$. Liquids tend to build up some things and deplete others and can throw off ph. I'm not sure about the root system though. Maybe you could take the rhizomes for next year and then till it all in gently?? Just leave the main root ball. Do you get a frost there? I'm thinking about putting some in here in VA.
Click to expand...

usually we get frost, but not very deep and not for multiple days/weeks at a time.

this is my first year gardening, so i don't know how they'll handle our little baby winters, and i'm not sure if i'll bring them in or not.
 
I'm actually trying to figure out if they need a frost. From what I can tell the only produce after 2 years and then pretty heavy the 3rd. I worked for a guy that had a greenhouse and we put one in(turned out male) but it grew about 6 inches a day. I had another (male too) that I planted on a fence against some trees and it grew about 20 feet high and I never watered or fertilized it once.

Here are some things I found:

http://www.specialtycrops.colostate.edu/scp_exp_demo/hops.htm
http://www.colostate.edu/Dept/CoopExt/Adams/cabas/pdf/RockyMtnCSU_Hops_2011_BigandSmall.pdf
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/NewCrops/introsheets/hops.pdf
 
Also throw some liquid iron on there, it really perked my hops up and they got very green.
 
UncleJohnnys said:
I'm actually trying to figure out if they need a frost. From what I can tell the only produce after 2 years and then pretty heavy the 3rd. I worked for a guy that had a greenhouse and we put one in(turned out male) but it grew about 6 inches a day. I had another (male too) that I planted on a fence against some trees and it grew about 20 feet high and I never watered or fertilized it once.

Here are some things I found:

http://www.specialtycrops.colostate.edu/scp_exp_demo/hops.htm
http://www.colostate.edu/Dept/CoopExt/Adams/cabas/pdf/RockyMtnCSU_Hops_2011_BigandSmall.pdf
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/NewCrops/introsheets/hops.pdf
Click to expand...

plenty of frost-less growers on here. they do need seasons (i.e. significantly shorter/longer days) but you'd get that in VA. mine were growing several inches a day (even with whatever issue it is they have), but have slowed down now that they've hit the top of their line and are flowering.
 
yep.
and, IIRC, it is also one factor in when they die back in the winter, but i am less sure of that.
 
UncleJohnnys said:
I'm actually trying to figure out if they need a frost. From what I can tell the only produce after 2 years and then pretty heavy the 3rd. snip snip







they will in fact produce on the first year.



Bengerman your baby winter will not harm em, they were grown in your climate they will handle whatever is thrown at em. I get a frost layer almost 2ft thick here and mine stay in the ground all winter with no ill effect.
Click to expand...
 
they will in fact produce on the first year.
this is true. My Mystery Hops are shooting off tons of little burrs and baby-cones right now, and my centennials have quite a few burrs as well, i have yet to see the quality of first-years (i've heard they can be lower in AA, but, hey, they're MY hops, adding to this being MY beer)

Bengerman your baby winter will not harm em, they were grown in your climate they will handle whatever is thrown at em. I get a frost layer almost 2ft thick here and mine stay in the ground all winter with no ill effect.

i know they're fine in-ground over the winter, i'm just concerned about in pots. i think i'll move them up against the house and rdwhahb

anyways, back on topic, i did a little googling about general gardening and it looks like i can use gypsum at any time during the growing season and it should help.
EDIT:
i just now caught the 2ft thick frost layer. my pots are 2f cubed, so i should be pretty darn safe.
 
Cant remember where it is now but i had made a comment in one of the potted hops threads about that. seems some people (even in Ny) were bringing them inside. so I said what does it matter freezing solid is freezing solid. does it matter if they are in the ground or in a pot? I never heard anything to prove my theory wrong, so until i do thats my story and im sticking to it. lol

Ive never grown in pots(hops I mean) but i have heard about the gypsum additions at any time as well.
 
bengerman said:
:off:my mystery hop has hops!
ok...they're tiny hops, nowhere near harvest, but onto the point of the post.

this plant has been showing signs of either potassium or phosphorus deficiency (i can't keep them straight...)
so i've been giving it 0-10-10 fertilizer to try to combat this. it's become an annoying cycle of notice deficiency, add fertilizer. signs of dificiency go away for 4-5 days, then come back.

the soil around this hop (it's in a planter) has become very compact, so i'm thinking this is causing the rapid nutrient loss.
does that sound likely?

secondly, if that is the likely root (no pun intended) cause, is there anything i can do about it during the growing season? or should i continue with the 0-10-10 and fix it during the dormant season?

my understanding is that peat moss is the best remedy for compact soil. i'm just worried that if i try to mix in some peat moss i'll damage the roots and or break the bine.
Click to expand...


Compacted soil, or compaction, is the biggest inhibitor to any plant's growth. It prevents water's ability to penetrate the soil and it also inhibits root growth. Roots also need oxygen as well as water and compacted soil prevents this from happening.

Peat moss is "ok" as a soil ammendment but it carries zero nutrients with it. Its main benefit is for moisture retention. You're better off ammending your soil with organic matter, such as compost or composted manure. Since your hops are in a planter though, the soil won't benefit from all the usual micro-organisms and all the other things that make soil "alive" as much as if they were planted in the ground.

How did the soil in your planter become compacted? Compaction is normally the result of too much foot traffic or heavy clay soils tend to become compacted over time...but I doubt anyone is stepping in your planter or that it contains lots of clay in the soil structure.

Regardless, if the soil is compacted, you have to relieve that mechanically first, before you even think about ammending the soil. If the panter is big enough try pushing a pitch fork fully into the soil and gently prying it back and forth to break up the soil. Do it gently enough so you don't destroy the roots but forcefully enough to break up the soil. Don't worry if you break some roots...hops are very invasive and breaking some roots will actually help stimulate root growth in the damaged areas, just like pruning does...just don't go overboard, lol.

Once this is done, add a little bit of organic matter to the top of the soil...or better yet, make a "compost tea" by soaking a burlap sack full of compost and composted manure in a large bucket of water or a rain barrel for a week or so, remove the bag and throw the contents in your compost bin and then water your hops with the water/compost tea. It usually smealls pretty awful but plants love it.

Throw a few worms in there too for good measure. Their tunnels help aleviate and prevent compaction, and their poop is good for your hops!

Good luck.

Nick
 
CanadianQuaffer said:
Compacted soil, or compaction, is the biggest inhibitor to any plant's growth. It prevents water's ability to penetrate the soil and it also inhibits root growth. Roots also need oxygen as well as water and compacted soil prevents this from happening.

How did the soil in your planter become compacted? Compaction is normally the result of too much foot traffic or heavy clay soils tend to become compacted over time...but I doubt anyone is stepping in your planter or that it contains lots of clay in the soil structure.



Throw a few worms in there too for good measure. Their tunnels help aleviate and prevent compaction, and their poop is good for your hops!

Good luck.

Nick
Click to expand...

not sure how the soil became compacted other than repeated drying/watering. obviously nobody's walking on it (that i know of) the soil was gardener and bloom potting soil with a lot of compost and some chicken maure mixed in, amended with dome dolomite.

good idea with the worms. i'll have to wait till a less sunny day, but i'll try to hunt some out of the compost bin.
 

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