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-   -   Aphids in harvested crop (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f92/aphids-harvested-crop-192333/)

rollinred 08-23-2010 07:27 PM

Aphids in harvested crop
 
Well this year right about at harvest time the aphids found my plants. I had been watching for them all year and only found a couple. These are second year plants btw.


I harvested a little over 1 pound of wet hops last night that looked like there was a few aphids on them and put them in my dehydrator last night.

This morning I woke up to find what looked like a few hundred aphids crawling on my dehydrator. I am assuming the hops got dry enough that the aphids were no longer interested and started crawling out of the crevices I could not see.

So what do you guys think... do I need to throw out these hops because of aphid contamination? What is the SOP for this situation?

You can bet your A$$ that I am going to be full on hardcore chemical pesticide next year. I refuse to deal with these little bastards in a gentle way any longer. I don't even believe in the value of organic anyway so I have no idea why I even tried.

Thanks for the help.

jgln 08-23-2010 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollinred (Post 2233286)
Well this year right about at harvest time the aphids found my plants. I had been watching for them all year and only found a couple. These are second year plants btw.


I harvested a little over 1 pound of wet hops last night that looked like there was a few aphids on them and put them in my dehydrator last night.

This morning I woke up to find what looked like a few hundred aphids crawling on my dehydrator. I am assuming the hops got dry enough that the aphids were no longer interested and started crawling out of the crevices I could not see.

So what do you guys think... do I need to throw out these hops because of aphid contamination? What is the SOP for this situation?

You can bet your A$$ that I am going to be full on hardcore chemical pesticide next year. I refuse to deal with these little bastards in a gentle way any longer. I don't even believe in the value of organic anyway so I have no idea why I even tried.

Thanks for the help.

Aphid Ale??

That is a shame but I guess it is really up to you if you want to use them. I don't think if you add them to the boil you are going to get sick but I am no doctor. I also don't know if they will settle out to the bottom or stay floating on top. My guess after boiling and a few weeks out they will settle to the bottom. That is of course if you cannot remove them first. I'd probably not use them if I could not remove them first because eating bugs creeps me out.

Randar 08-23-2010 07:36 PM

"I don't even believe in the value of organic anyway so I have no idea why I even tried."

"When you believe in things that you don't understand, you will suffer..."

Even a blind man would have to ask why you tried if you claim to not believe in it anyways. I am not going to start the organic vs non-organic argument with respect to hops, but if you want to drown you and your beer drinkin buddies in chemicals, go for it.

Randar 08-23-2010 07:38 PM

As for the aphids, look for em in the protein break, haha. They won't hurt anything if you can get over the "buggy" issue... It's all mental.

rollinred 08-23-2010 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randar (Post 2233318)
"I don't even believe in the value of organic anyway so I have no idea why I even tried."

"When you believe in things that you don't understand, you will suffer..."

Even a blind man would have to ask why you tried if you claim to not believe in it anyways. I am not going to start the organic vs non-organic argument with respect to hops, but if you want to drown you and your beer drinkin buddies in chemicals, go for it.


It was an experiment to see if I could get away with just the cheap "natural" methods instead of buying pesticides.

I don't want to start some organic vs non-organic either but I know for sure your statement of "if you want to drown you and your beer drinkin buddies in chemicals, go for it" is way overboard when following proper wait times for harvest after spraying. In fact they won't be getting anything but trace amounts if following a proper wait time, if any at all. Afterall, these chemicals break down from light, water, and oxygen in to harmless substances or quantities. So no I am not worried at all about how much will be in the beer.


I am also not afraid of drinking in a little aphid juice. I was more unsure of how they would have affected the quality of the hops themselves and if they were even viable for brewing with. I have also not opened up the dehydrator to even see if most of them left the hops anyway during drying.

jgln 08-23-2010 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollinred (Post 2233434)
It was an experiment to see if I could get away with just the cheap "natural" methods instead of buying pesticides.

I don't want to start some organic vs non-organic either but I know for sure your statement of "if you want to drown you and your beer drinkin buddies in chemicals, go for it" is way overboard when following proper wait times for harvest after spraying. In fact they won't be getting anything but trace amounts if following a proper wait time, if any at all. Afterall, these chemicals break down from light, water, and oxygen in to harmless substances or quantities. So no I am not worried at all about how much will be in the beer.


I am also not afraid of drinking in a little aphid juice. I was more unsure of how they would have affected the quality of the hops themselves and if they were even viable for brewing with. I have also not opened up the dehydrator to even see if most of them left the hops anyway during drying.

I was thinking about that too since aphids suck juices out of leaves so maybe they suck the "pollen" (can't think what it is called right now) too. If they bugs don't creep you out and they smell good you should be ok I'm guessing. Taste an aphid, maybe they taste like hops now too. :D

Randar 08-23-2010 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollinred (Post 2233434)
In fact they won't be getting anything but trace amounts if following a proper wait time, if any at all. Afterall, these chemicals break down from light, water, and oxygen in to harmless substances or quantities. So no I am not worried at all about how much will be in the beer.

I'm sorry, but I just simply disagree with both the basic assumption that following the instructions means you are safe as well as ignoring the impact on your local ecosystem. You don't think there is a cumulative impact of consuming "small" or "trace" amounts of chemicals throughout your entire food chain?


Quote:

Originally Posted by rollinred (Post 2233434)
I am also not afraid of drinking in a little aphid juice. I was more unsure of how they would have affected the quality of the hops themselves and if they were even viable for brewing with. I have also not opened up the dehydrator to even see if most of them left the hops anyway during drying.

I think you will probably end up with lower AA% than comparable hops without this issue. Did you tear any wet hops in half and examine the lupulin glands/quality and the aroma? You would probably notice a lower than expected aroma or a lack of or reduced presence of the sticky-icky lupulin!

rollinred 08-23-2010 09:06 PM

Your thinking of lupulin. I don't think they are going to attempt eating that as they prefer the water and proteins inside the veins of the plant.

rollinred 08-23-2010 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randar (Post 2233533)
I'm sorry, but I just simply disagree with both the basic assumption that following the instructions means you are safe as well as ignoring the impact on your local ecosystem. You don't think there is a cumulative impact of consuming "small" or "trace" amounts of chemicals throughout your entire food chain?

No, not in trace amounts. Chemicals such pyrethrin have already shown to leave to body very quickly, like hours, after ingesting trace amounts with no buildup whatsoever in the body. And those trace amounts in their tests are ones that would occur with eating fruits and such that have been sprayed with it. I wouldn't ever be able to take in enough beer in one sitting to even come close to hurting anyone or anything.

Also, on the ecosystem thing... no, I am not worried about that, not even one cent. My area is dominated with farms which all spray insecticides heavily because of the large Cherry, apple, corn, and other crops. Not to mention I live on a peninsula surrounded the great lakes and split down the middle with a large inland lake and not once have I ever heard of an issue caused by any of these sprays used by farmers on the insect balance or water. And if there was an area that would have that problem, this would be one of them.

Just check it out on a map. Traverse City, or Lake Leelanau, the town I live in, would be decimated if these chemicals had a substantial effect.


Anyway, like we said before... Lets not make this a pissing match over whats right or wrong because neither of us will budge anyway. I just want to know what others have done in this situation where their hops are pretty loaded with aphids.

Randar 08-23-2010 10:22 PM

I actually know the area very well. That said, I still disagree with your conclusion. Because it may be easily washed into your watershed, does not mean all insecticides, fungicides, chemical fertilizers, etc are benign.

Asian Carp love the Illinois river because of the vast nitrates that cause algae bloom and feed the bastards. Where did those nitrates come from? It is all related. Pyrethrin may be less harmful and more benign than other chemicals, true. But blanket statements shouldn't be made on either side.


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