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Old 10-05-2012, 02:40 PM   #11
cwi
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I added fields for grain absorption and mash tun loss. However, the BeerXML standard doesn't have fields for these and there isn't really an intuitive way to infer the information. So the only way to save this data between page loads would be to stray from the standard, which may be a slippery slope (I'm not opposed to it, but I'd like to stay with the standard if possible). I can highlight these fields to make the user aware that the these fields are not auto-populated when loading a saved recipe. I'll keep digging for a solution.

Do the "download" links work on Android? I don't have an Android device to test it.
The BeerXML standard is not locked down, and there were talks regarding mods, but they stalled. The standard only needs to be adhered to rigidly when used as a 'message' to send a recipe to another package. The minimum specs (regarding sugars) needed to share a recipe are kettle volume and efficiency 'to the kettle'. More accurate scaling to a new system can be had by including 'conversion eff' and 'lauter eff' (which includes tun loss, grain absorp, etc). The standard can be modified to stipulate either 'to the kettle' eff, OR 'conv eff' and 'lauter eff' separately (from which 'to the kettle eff' can be calculated).


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Old 10-05-2012, 02:50 PM   #12
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Am I correct in assuming 'Efficiency' is 'to/in the kettle', and 'Batch Size' is 'in the kettle' post boil and chilled?
Edit- Since there are no post boil loss fields, efficiency would have to be 'to the kettle'. Please keep it that way if you add any post boil loss fields. Also, maintain Batch Size as 'in the kettle' (though maybe rename it something more descriptive), and volumes after post boil losses are removed should be named what they are, like 'Fermenter Volume' and 'Package Volume'.

Also, is 'Pre-boil Volume' the volume at boil or mash temps, or corrected to room temps?



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Old 10-05-2012, 03:27 PM   #13
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Pbv is the amount of wort collected

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Old 10-05-2012, 03:49 PM   #14
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Pbv is the amount of wort collected
I took a look at the source code, and it appears to use 'room temp' volume. If the 'amount of wort collected' is measured at mash temps or ~boil temps, the volume will be ~4% larger. This is a common issue with using marks on a stick or kettle/sightglass. I don't think anyone has gone to the trouble to mark their kettle/stick to adjust for temperature corrections.

A nice feature is to also give the expected preboil volume as a temperature corrected value- most packages use boiling temps, since most people fire the burner during runoff. Allowing the measuring temp to be specified would be even better, so that the volume check on brewday is easier, especially for BIAB who can't fire the burner during runoff, since there isn't one.

There is an alternate method of using hydrometer readings and volumes at hot temps, but it sounded like a cluster. Taking volume measurements at temp, then correcting; and taking a gravity sample and letting it cool, or using a refract is much less confusing.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:08 PM   #15
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You are correct that the app currently does not take thermal expansion into account. If you can provide a formula for calculating the thermal expansion coefficient based on gravity, I could add that in. I will most likely be revisiting the XML import to better account for the exports from commercial software.

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Old 10-05-2012, 05:29 PM   #16
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Looked great on Droid. How about original and final gravity calculations? Look great other than that !!!

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Old 10-05-2012, 05:49 PM   #17
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You are correct that the app currently does not take thermal expansion into account. If you can provide a formula for calculating the thermal expansion coefficient based on gravity, I could add that in.
The issue isn't whether boil or room temp is used, but more of a documentation issue of what is used. That being said, a hot temp value is easier to check on Brewday, while a room temp value is easier to verify boil off rate before brewday. For the hot side measurements, having fields that show a volume at a chosen temp as well as temp corrected would be nice.

I know I saw a expansion equation somewhere, but not sure if it included gravity compensation.

Some guys might start screaming for a temp corrected hydrometer calculator so they can get immediate readings. I say go buy a refractometer for ~$25, although the LHBS prices are much higher. Best ROI of any piece of brewing gear.

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I will most likely be revisiting the XML import to better account for the exports from commercial software.
Word of warning- BeerSmith doesn't export BeerXML properly. It is a catch 22, either don't accomodate a fairly large volume of recipes/users, or create a special importer.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:23 PM   #18
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cwi,

Thank you for the info. Once I find an equation, I can add the adjusted volume to the "Results" section. BeerSmith compatibility would be nice, but since this is a labor of love, I'm not going to kill myself over it. That's mostly the reason I wrote it in JS and released it under GPL. Anyone can expand on it if they like.

BrokenArm,

The OG and FG are listed in the Results section. They are listed as gravity points, not in SG (mostly to save space on mobile platforms). You can divide by 1000 and add 1 to get the familiar 1.0XX numbers. The FG is calculated using the Yeast Attenuation field. If this doesn't work for you, please let me know.

-Bruno

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Old 10-05-2012, 08:03 PM   #19
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cwi,

...anyone can expand on it if they like.


-Bruno
Exactly. OG and FG would be nice, for completeness. However, to account for thermal expansion etc., would be more than what is being offered. I took the pre-boil to mean amount of wort collected @ mash temp. Kinda like on Brew365
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Fermenting: #20 Ol' Bishop's Jolly Holiday Grog
Conditioning:
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Recently consumed: #16 Bishop's Tarbaby Coffee Porter, # 17 Bishop's Tall Two-Bit Blonde #18 Bishop Garity's Irish Red, #19 Bishop's Great Pumpkin
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:46 PM   #20
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Quote:
cwi,

...anyone can expand on it if they like.
-Bruno
Exactly. OG and FG would be nice, for completeness. However, to account for thermal expansion etc., would be more than what is being offered. I took the pre-boil to mean amount of wort collected @ mash temp. Kinda like on Brew365
I wasn't demanding anything be added, just wondering what the value was defined as. I believe I stated that in my posts. The author volunteered to add temp adjusted numbers. I am fine without temp adj values, but it would be nice. This is a trivial enhancement compared to the brew calcs. The hardest part is locating the thermal expansion equation.

OG and FG are there at the bottom. Are you also wanting them up top? That is far more than what is being offered.

As for expanding it- until it is posted on sourceforge or something, it will be hard for someone else to modify the code and have others benefit from any added features.


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