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Old 02-20-2009, 05:17 PM   #21
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Yeah, now that you mention it, I've never seen anybody rant on HBT before.

I've seen whole threads about people whining because they want to brew and didn't order their ingredients in time to receive them before brew day, and it's someone else's fault.

It's not like double sparging hasn't been being done for a long while, and it's not like multiple sparges weren't intended in the software; it's more that the guy who wrote it didn't know how to let you select what you want, and didn't bother to tell you how you have to play games with it to get what you want.

This isn't an obscure step in a process, it is a very common part of many brewer's procedure.

As far as I can tell, update is due MAYBE in fall '09.

I'll suggest he try to find a way.

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You know, I've been seeing several posters here at HBT lately acting very upset about BeerSmith, and how it handles certain functions. I've even complained about one particular setting in the program.

HOWEVER, after I requested on the forum, I've seen Brad post here at HBT that he is (1) rewriting the code for a more portable platform and (2) adding in many people's requested tweaks, including the tweak I asked for.

Is BeerSmith perfect? Nope, but acting angry and put-out that the writer didn't read your mind to know exactly what you want to do and anticipate every tiny detail of your process won't help. Learn to use the tools, and your software will reward you. This goes for Beersmith, ProMash, BTP, or any other brewing software.
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Old 02-20-2009, 05:26 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jds View Post
You know, I've been seeing several posters here at HBT lately acting very upset about BeerSmith, and how it handles certain functions. I've even complained about one particular setting in the program.

HOWEVER, after I requested on the forum, I've seen Brad post here at HBT that he is (1) rewriting the code for a more portable platform and (2) adding in many people's requested tweaks, including the tweak I asked for.

Is BeerSmith perfect? Nope, but acting angry and put-out that the writer didn't read your mind to know exactly what you want to do and anticipate every tiny detail of your process won't help. Learn to use the tools, and your software will reward you. This goes for Beersmith, ProMash, BTP, or any other brewing software.
+100. Some people just don't get that software is not a static product. It changes over time to adjust to the demands of the user and the envrionment it's used in. If a developer were to wait until their product had every last feature that a user wanted, and was completely bug free, and ran on the latest hardware and software platforms it would NEVER get to market.
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Old 02-20-2009, 05:28 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Henry Hill View Post
Yeah, now that you mention it, I've never seen anybody rant on HBT before.

I've seen whole threads about people whining because they want to brew and didn't order their ingredients in time to receive them before brew day, and it's someone else's fault.

It's not like double sparging hasn't been being done for a long while, and it's not like multiple sparges weren't intended in the software; it's more that the guy who wrote it didn't know how to let you select what you want, and didn't bother to tell you how you have to play games with it to get what you want.

This isn't an obscure step in a process, it is a very common part of many brewer's procedure.

As far as I can tell, update is due MAYBE in fall '09.

I'll suggest he try to find a way.
Here ya go...complain over in this forum, where someone might actually be able to do something about it. Who knows, you might even get a response from that knucklehead of a developer...

BeerSmith Home Brewing Forum - Index | BeerSmith Home Brewing Forum
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Old 02-20-2009, 05:59 PM   #24
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If your MT is big enough to hold all the sparge water at once then the software will give you one big sparge despite your "insinuations". As we all know, computers are great at picking up subtlety.
If it calculates you need more water than available space, it will give two sparges of different volumes unless you check the equal sparges box. The work around if your MT is large is to tell is to use less of the tun.
I'm sure there was logic and thought put into the way it's set up, just not your logic. Rather than bitching about it here, maybe you should email the author and suggest a different approach for the next version. Or write your own software and post it here so we can bitch about its shortcomings.

As far as I'm concerned, Beersmith is a labour of love for the author, who I'm sure is not getting rich from the sales and is a fan of homebrewing. It's a work in progress and I'm sure will continue to improve with input from its users. ****ting on it in a forum that he may or may not visit is useless, why waste your time? Ask for help or delete the program but why take it so personally?

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Simple. Because you can't just select what you want and get it, without having to lie to it, and trial and error, to get the desired result. Yeah, it was easy to create the desired double sparge, after Beerthirty told me, but nowhere in the help does it tell you that you have to play games with it until you get what you want. And what logic is there in setting MLT volume to 100% and getting only 1 sparge when you asked for equal volume sparges (insinuating multiple) but you only get the double sparge after setting it back to 70% in this case? Why is that hard to understand, or program?

I have been to the BS Forum and spent a lot of time looking for stuff before I posted. That's why the attitude.

I downloaded both Pro Mash and BS and everyone said Beersmith is way easier and that's the way to go. I will be buying Promash.

Beersmith key for sale.
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Old 02-23-2009, 08:11 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Camel View Post
If your MT is big enough to hold all the sparge water at once then the software will give you one big sparge despite your "insinuations". As we all know, computers are great at picking up subtlety.
If it calculates you need more water than available space, it will give two sparges of different volumes unless you check the equal sparges box. The work around if your MT is large is to tell is to use less of the tun.
I'm sure there was logic and thought put into the way it's set up, just not your logic. Rather than bitching about it here, maybe you should email the author and suggest a different approach for the next version. Or write your own software and post it here so we can bitch about its shortcomings.

As far as I'm concerned, Beersmith is a labour of love for the author, who I'm sure is not getting rich from the sales and is a fan of homebrewing. It's a work in progress and I'm sure will continue to improve with input from its users. ****ting on it in a forum that he may or may not visit is useless, why waste your time? Ask for help or delete the program but why take it so personally?
There has been way too much being made of my reaction, but that's what happens when you don't know someone or only communicate via keyboard. I personally don't suck up to people, so I react how I react deal-deal with it. From my viewpoint, others have taken it personally, not me.

Here is the response to my post-made as soon as I could put it into proper words. Note that I have been a member of the BS Forum since May of 2008.

Please Elminate Trial And Error to Get Double Sparge | BeerSmith Home Brewing Forum

Form the reply, one sparge is always more effective, a debate that I won't bother to enter.

Apparently, Beersmith feels I should do things the way he sees it. That is not why I brew, or why I bought this software. It is apparently written for people who like things easy, as opposed to how they might actually want them, if they knew for sure what they want. Seems funny how there are so many threads with users having difficulty with Beersmith.

A labor of love it may be. In my experience with writing programs as a machinist, my program must work perfectly, the first time, so I love that software makers are 'developers'.

I still feel that a cafeteria style approach to selecting the steps of the process the brewer desires is far easier and direct for both 'developer' and brewer. And he feels that his way is best, so I let it go at that. It is what it is, and that is all that it is.

There are a lot of Home Brewing software offerings out there, so to each his own.
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:24 PM   #26
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HH, I had similar issues when I first started using brew software. I even demanded a refund from BTP because of the difficulty I had using it at the time. When I started using BeerSmith I didn't really understand the need to program a program. I found that by searching this forum and the BS forum most of my questions were answered. On this forum I asked the same question concerning double batch sparge and was given the answers to my problem. If you think that any program should be perfect, maybe you should go back to pencil and paper so you may carry it out to the last decimal. If you think that I'm being an a$$, go back and reread your posts.

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Old 02-24-2009, 04:37 PM   #27
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I have some issues with Beersmith, but then again, it comes in a fully-functional trial version which you could re-install a million times (or just remove the reg keys) if you weren't absolutely sure you liked it.

That said, BS has frustrated me in that is is not terribly intuitive, nor is its interface really smooth. Going back and forth between the water calcuator and the recipe is difficult. As a stovetop batch sparger, I just can't seem to get water volumes right, and I would prefer that water calc was a direct part of the recipe calculation.

I'm going to fool with it some more and then post on the BS forums.

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Old 02-24-2009, 04:54 PM   #28
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I think I get the issue here...you're actually relying on BeerSmith for your water volumes! I get a kick out of that, maybe since I've never, ever used it for that. Is it really that hard to just figure out what BeerSmith recommends for a single batch sparge and divide that by two??? Voila, double batch sparge.

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Old 02-26-2009, 01:40 AM   #29
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Yes, I am trying to rely on beersmith for my water volumes too.
I'm kind of struggling with the water volumes, but maybe it's a vocabulary thing between us brewers or I don't understand Beersmith's definition of single step batch sparging.

I see three steps for adding water to a single batch sparge.
1. Add water for mash in. I try to shoot for 1.3 qt/lb water/grain ratio.
2. Add water for mash out. I try to shoot for 2 qt/lb water/grain ratio.
Then drain the mash tun. I try to shoot for 50% of my preboil volume.
This is my first runnings.

3. Add water for sparge. I try to shoot for the other 50% of my preboil volume. This is my second runnings.

The only reason I see for multiple sparge steps would be if my mash tun wasn't big enough for my boil volume (mine is).

But I can't get Beersmith to get my ratios correct and get the correct preboil volume either.
Are you trying for multiple sparge steps or are you trying to get your first and second runnings the same volume? I would think the latter.

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Old 02-26-2009, 02:11 AM   #30
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FYI - If I get rid of my mash out step in Beersmith and adjust my mash in ratio from 1.5 to 1.6 Beersmith will calculate equal first and second runnings.

However, I like to do the mashout to stop enzyme conversion and help prevent a stuck sparge (especially with a wheat grain bill).

I guess the biggest question I have for Beersmith is if he treats Mashout water volume as sparge water volume?

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