Gremlyn's English Cider

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Gremlyn

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******** MOSTLY IGNORE THE ABOVE INFO ********

I made this recipe based as a variation of Graham's English Cider. After making his recipe (although quite tasty), I felt it wasn't traditional enough for my discerning English palette. The big difference in my recipe is that I use actual malic acid and tannins to achieve the desired effect. I want to stress the fact that this cider should be drinkable in 3-4 months, which is shorter than Graham's cider aging time due to a few factors. First, and foremost, I believe the WLP775 cider yeast is a BIG factor in the aging time. Using a non-cider yeast may get you a slightly different, and interesting end result, but sticking with the yeast that has been selected specifically for the task at hand will never be a bad idea. The other change that I feel is important in reducing the aging time is the malic acid vs the lime juice. I've not looked into what happens to citric acid during fermentation, but the malic acid is a know substance that has been involved in cider fermentation for hundreds of years, and the fermentation of malic acid to malolactic acid by small amounts of lactobacilli is actually an important step in traditional cider making.

Recipe
5 gal Apple Juice (I use Costco Brand Apple Juice)
3 oz Malic Acid (first tried 3.75oz, I then dialed it back on the next batch as I think it was a touch too acidic)
Powdered Tannins to taste (start at 1/4 tsp per gal up to 1/2 tsp per gal)**
WLP775 - gives a great apple flavour, needs only 3-4 months ageing

The result is a great, medium dry cider (finished at 1.004) with a nice tartness and decent body. I think using malic acid and the WLP775 yeast is key to this being successful.

**I haven't dialed in the tannin ratio yet, and can't find my notes on what I used. My belief is that I used 1/4 tsp per gallon on the last batch. I will be converting the inaccurate teaspoon measurement with weight when I make the next batch (soon).
 
A quick note: If you intend to leave this cider uncarbonated, I would dial back the malic acid a little, maybe to 3.25oz. I found when I first chilled it, before adding the bubbles, that it was a little overly tart. This balanced out very well once carbed, though.
 
I plan on kegging this. Is there anything specific you do for kegging this?

is this a strong bow clone ?
 
I plan on kegging this. Is there anything specific you do for kegging this?

is this a strong bow clone ?

I keg it as it, and I haven't directly compared this is Strongbow. It wasn't intended to be a clone of anything specific, and Strongbow isn't really the best example of a traditional English cider, though it isn't bad. I would say this is more tart than Strongbow.
 
3-4 months aging... where do you suggest? in a secondary carboy? or in a keg and left in my cold conditioning spot in my keezer?
 
Neither is necessary, the Costco apple juice is considered sanitary coming out of the bottles.

I fermented it in a 6 gal Better Bottle and left it there until I racked to a keg after 3-4 months. You can put it in a keg after the fermentation is over at any time, though.
 
I can get the wyeast equiv. cider yeast. Will this work? Also, how is the malic acid in yours being converted if no lacto bacillus?
 
I can get the wyeast equiv. cider yeast. Will this work? Also, how is the malic acid in yours being converted if no lacto bacillus?

I'm sure the wyeast equivalent is fine. As for the malic acid, not all cider undergoes malolactic acid fermentation, though cider apples always contain malic acid. I have thought about trying some cider with a little lacto added and see what comes of it, but it'll be a hard thing to control.
 
How active is the WLP775 yeast? I am going to brew this recipe on Sunday and do it in a 5 gallon carboy. Will I need to use a blow off system for the first couple of days?
 
A little late, but no blow off needed with cider, it doesn't have the same denatured protein content to cause long-lived bubbles.
 
Never tried, I always keg... Once I tried it with some apfelwein and it was a no-go. maybe if you kick up enough when racking to the bottling bucket?
 
I messed around with different ways to bottle and naturally carb Apfelwein with mixed success before finally settling on a method that yields consistently good carbonation. I expect it would work equally well with Gremlyn's cider.

I prime with 1/3 gallon of apple juice, which gives a fairly low level of carbonation. You might use 1/2 gallon if you prefer more effervescence. I pour about half of the priming juice into the bottling bucket and then rack the Apfelwein onto it, being sure to kick up a little of the yeast sediment as Gremyln suggests. Then I pour the rest of the juice on top and leave it to sit for 20 minutes or so (covered with foil) while I do other brewing chores. Then bottle. I find that it takes a good 6-8 weeks before I have a good level of carbonation, but it gets there, and it's pretty consistent from one bottle to the next.

This process has worked for me. You might give it a go if your standard priming process isn't satisfactory for whatever reason.
 
I checked in on mine just now.
I'm a bit worried.

It has been in primary for 5 weeks.
The reading shows 1.000 or 0%.

It has a sour like, but apple tasty (granny smith flavor).
It smells and tastes a bit like wine.
Cloudy, but I used unfiltered mill cider.

Thoughts, ideas, patience?

New to cider... nervous.
 
I checked in on mine just now.
I'm a bit worried.

It has been in primary for 5 weeks.
The reading shows 1.000 or 0%.

It has a sour like, but apple tasty (granny smith flavor).
It smells and tastes a bit like wine.
Cloudy, but I used unfiltered mill cider.

Thoughts, ideas, patience?

New to cider... nervous.

If you started at 1.050 and ended at 1.000 that would be 6.7% not 0%. Most cider needs a bit of age on it, especially when it goes dry. OP suggests 3-4 months. Let it age a bit. :D
 
I checked in on mine just now.
I'm a bit worried.

It has been in primary for 5 weeks.
The reading shows 1.000 or 0%.

It has a sour like, but apple tasty (granny smith flavor).
It smells and tastes a bit like wine.
Cloudy, but I used unfiltered mill cider.

Thoughts, ideas, patience?

New to cider... nervous.

You haven't even entered the patience phase... give it 4-6 months and then see how it is.
 
The malolactic fermentation intrigues me. I've made apfelwine a few times with different (all organic and rather expensive) apple juices, and honestly I've been a bit underwhelmed. It's good if you consider it a wine, but I that's not really what I want to make. What do you think about pitching a very small amount of commercial lacto into the batch? If I do this, should I cut out the malic acid completely, or keep it in?
 
Bottled it a few weeks ago with the apple juice as the sugar. Can't wait to test it!

ForumRunner_20120906_091629.jpg
 
Here is the finished product. It has had some mixed reviews. My sister and SWMBO say that it is too bitter. Would I just reduce the tannins and malic acid to make it less bitter?

ForumRunner_20121003_064840.jpg
 
What's the taste difference between regular and "English" cider?
 
Intrigued by the recipe. Has anyone gotten the amounts of tannins and malic acid down to the correct ratio?

Also, should you make a starter for this recipe or can you just use one vial?
 
The malic acid all depends on how tart you like it. To figure out the right amount for me, I did some taste testing with scaled down amounts of juice.

I just started a batch that is 3oz malic acid, and 0.2oz tannins, and I also pitched malolactic bacteria along with the yeast this time to see how that goes.

EDIT: so the 0.2oz of tannins has made it quite dark (I'm using the only tannins I had access to, which is grape tannins), but it's only 1 day into fermentation so we'll see if it lightens up over time. I'm sure it will and I will post up when I have results.
 
Here is the finished product. It has had some mixed reviews. My sister and SWMBO say that it is too bitter. Would I just reduce the tannins and malic acid to make it less bitter?

View attachment 78076

Looks a bit cloudy. This should settle out and become brilliantly clear over the course of ageing it. Make sure you do age 3-4 months, as the flavour will definitely develop over time.
 
The malic acid all depends on how tart you like it. To figure out the right amount for me, I did some taste testing with scaled down amounts of juice.

I just started a batch that is 3oz malic acid, and 0.2oz tannins, and I also pitched malolactic bacteria along with the yeast this time to see how that goes.

EDIT: so the 0.2oz of tannins has made it quite dark (I'm using the only tannins I had access to, which is grape tannins), but it's only 1 day into fermentation so we'll see if it lightens up over time. I'm sure it will and I will post up when I have results.

Maybe my conversions aren't accurate, but isn't 3 oz equal to ~6 tablespoons. That's a lot of malic acid. I've seen a few recipes with 1 or 2 tablespoons for a 5 gallon batch, so 6 tbsp quite a bit - at least relative to those recipes. On the other hand, I've never had an actual English draft cider, so that amount of acid may be spot on.

I've got a batch in the carboy with 1 tsp of tannin and 2 tbsp of malic acid. It's only been fermenting for a week and a half, but the flavor seems pretty good. The tannin is right, but I might add some more malic acid, though we're talking about maybe another 1/2 tbsp.

Maybe I'll make a test batch with a gallon jug and see how ramping up the malic acid tastes, especially if you get it some time to age. I'd suspect that what might taste too tart at one month could be awfully good at 4 or 5 months.

Anyway, thanks for the recipe. By the way, what temperature do you ferment at. I've kept the carboy temperature down ~62 degrees simply because I've heard that lower fermentation temperatures help better keep the apple flavor and aroma. But I have no idea if that's true. Maybe another experiment is offing.
 
I make a habit of not converting volumes to weights or vice versa, so I can't speak to the conversion to tbsp, but it is a fair amount of malic acid, so I bet your not far off with your conversion. English ciders can really run the range, but tradition dry English cider is bitter-sweet at best, and I don't mind mine a touch more tart. As I said with this latest batch, I'm giving MLF a shot to see how the balance does. I think that could really but this cider in the 'sweet spot'.

I usually ferment around 70F. With the English Cider Yeast I don't worry about losing the apple flavour, and even if you use something else, the apple flavour comes back with some ageing.
 
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