Joe's Ancient Orange Mead

Williams 728
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yuval12321 said:
isn't it likewise in mead brewing?
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nope. Mead is assembled rather than brewed. Like wine

boil it needlessly if you want. This (mead making) is a tried and true process been around for millennia. Honey has inbuilt antimicrobial properties that render it almost immune to spoilage.

Why do you you think this recipe has uber 1000's views. Answer it works.

Just had 1/2 gallon of 11 month old JAOM with friends tonight. Delicious.

If you feel the need to over complicate a proven recipe have at it.

Your concerns are groundless.

the recipe is a winner. Follow it. Chop that orange into 1/8ths and shove it in the carboy. Job done. Give it a rinse before you chop it up. (that's in the recipe too)

This is one of the simplest unfeckupable recipes out there. You are seriously overthinking it.
 
yuval12321 said:
I'm from Israel, it wasn't me who stored the oranges in freezer, I got it from a orange juice seller in a market, he bought lots of oranges in the end of the last winter and stored it in freezer to keep selling orange juice during the summer. But it looks like the oranges he has were thawed before some days, so I afraid more bacteria populate it, so couldn't it infect the mead? I suppose that usually people use fresh oranges so it doesn't infect it. I still have the option to use a green orange (it should become yellow in few days), it is fresh but isn't tasty, the farmers produce it artificially somehow because it's not the season yet.

I'm a homebrewer of beer, and I would never add orange or any fruit to the fermentation without sanitizing it by boiling. isn't it likewise in mead brewing?
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Interesting. I'd go the route of the flesh from the frozen one and zesting the green/yellow one as it should still have the essential oils. If it doesn't smell strongly enough of orange when you dig your nail into it then let it get yellow before using it.

As for sanitizing the fruit, I do Camden tablets or star san on my fruits so the cooking doesn't alter the flavors. Forget what I actually did on this one. The alcohol level is high enough that you really only have to delay everything but your yeast unless you've got alcohol tolerant Brett. With that said, I would never throw something in that looks like it could be molding/about to rot.
 
Gavin C said:
nope. Mead is assembled rather than brewed. Like wine

boil it needlessly if you want. This (mead making) is a tried and true process been around for millennia. Honey has inbuilt antimicrobial properties that render it almost immune to spoilage.

Why do you you think this recipe has uber 1000's views. Answer it works.

Just had 1/2 gallon of 11 month old JAOM with friends tonight. Delicious.

If you feel the need to over complicate a proven recipe have at it.

Your concerns are groundless.
Click to expand...


Okay, so honey does have amazing anti microbial properties. However, they seem to be tied to low pH, high sugar content, and some honey produces hydrogen peroxide through enzymes. When you dilute the honey you lose the benefit of a low pH and high sugar content and I would seriously doubt enough hydrogen peroxide could be produced to be of assistance or we wouldn't drink mead. So yeah, sanitization is still required if you don't want to rely on luck forever.
 
sanitize the vessel and airlock of course. never suggested otherwise.

rinse the orange to remove debris/ pesticides off

again exactly as the recipe says.

this one is idiot proof
 
So finally I made it. I boiled the oranges for 2 minutes because the zest looked infectious, and the result looks nice. The starting gravity I have is 1.130, I hope the wine yeast I used will decrease it enough.
oh, I used only 2 medium sized oranges for 2.5 gallons, so should I add more in a few days when I can get more?
 
brewski09 said:
Okay, so honey does have amazing anti microbial properties. However, they seem to be tied to low pH, high sugar content, and some honey produces hydrogen peroxide through enzymes. When you dilute the honey you lose the benefit of a low pH and high sugar content and I would seriously doubt enough hydrogen peroxide could be produced to be of assistance or we wouldn't drink mead. So yeah, sanitization is still required if you don't want to rely on luck forever.
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+1 to understanding the reasons honey doesn't 'spoil'. The sugar content so high it is hydrophilic to the point of sucking water out of any organism that could spoil it.

It really bugs me when home made recipes for anything say that adding honey will add antibacterial properties...NOPE...once you mess with it now it is just like any other sweet water.
 
yuval12321 said:
I hope the wine yeast I used will decrease it enough.
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Well, if you actually used wine yeast, you are going to need to worry about it dropping too far. You will end up with a super dry and probably not tasty result.

You need to be on the actual mead threads where they used higher powered yeasts. Because now you will have to sorbate and backsweeten.
 
yuval12321 said:
So finally I made it. I boiled the oranges for 2 minutes because the zest looked infectious, and the result looks nice. The starting gravity I have is 1.130, I hope the wine yeast I used will decrease it enough.

oh, I used only 2 medium sized oranges for 2.5 gallons, so should I add more in a few days when I can get more?
Click to expand...


What wine yeast? (And yeah, you'll probably want to check out some threads on back sweetening with wine yeast). It depends on how much orange you like so go with your gut on how it smells. Orange flavors will drop out over time too.
 
sablesurfer said:
Well, if you actually used wine yeast, you are going to need to worry about it dropping too far. You will end up with a super dry and probably not tasty result.

You need to be on the actual mead threads where they used higher powered yeasts. Because now you will have to sorbate and backsweeten.
Click to expand...

brewski09 said:
What wine yeast? (And yeah, you'll probably want to check out some threads on back sweetening with wine yeast). It depends on how much orange you like so go with your gut on how it smells. Orange flavors will drop out over time too.
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I asked the beer brewing store to give me yeast for mead, and they told me they don't really know what should I use, and gave me yeast that people buy from them for mead brewing. it is used for cider or sparkling wine, it is called Lellamand E491, and according to google it is "not recommended above 13% abv", but I don't know if it means the yeast will die or it would produce bad flavors. The original gravity is 1.130, so if the end gravity will be 1.030 it's alcohol content will be 13.12%. Is it good?
 
yuval12321 said:
I asked the beer brewing store to give me yeast for mead, and they told me they don't really know what should I use, and gave me yeast that people buy from them for mead brewing. it is used for cider or sparkling wine, it is called Lellamand E491, and according to google it is "not recommended above 13% abv", but I don't know if it means the yeast will die or it would produce bad flavors. The original gravity is 1.130, so if the end gravity will be 1.030 it's alcohol content will be 13.12%. Is it good?
Click to expand...

Why on earth didnt you just follow the recipe?
 
yuval12321 said:
I asked the beer brewing store to give me yeast for mead, and they told me they don't really know what should I use, and gave me yeast that people buy from them for mead brewing. it is used for cider or sparkling wine, it is called Lellamand E491, and according to google it is "not recommended above 13% abv", but I don't know if it means the yeast will die or it would produce bad flavors. The original gravity is 1.130, so if the end gravity will be 1.030 it's alcohol content will be 13.12%. Is it good?
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I couldn't find lallemand e491. If it's good to 13% then the yeast basically goes dormant at that point because it can't make more alcohol. I wouldn't age it in bulk for a year or two on that cake (but I'm sure others would and have had no issues). I like this recipe with Nottingham beer yeast myself and feel it's better than the bread yeast (whatever strain it may be).
 
brewski09 said:
I couldn't find lallemand e491. If it's good to 13% then the yeast basically goes dormant at that point because it can't make more alcohol. I wouldn't age it in bulk for a year or two on that cake (but I'm sure others would and have had no issues). I like this recipe with Nottingham beer yeast myself and feel it's better than the bread yeast (whatever strain it may be).
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What's your end gravity usually?
Do you think I will have to kill the yeast somehow?
 
I'm rereading Joe's recipe (I do that quite often). I do not see any mention of boiling, scrubbing, divination or other jiggery-pokery. I definitely saw no mention of killing yeast, pasteurization, homogenization, castration or masturbation.

My new friend, why are you trying so hard to make something so beautifully simple into something overly complicated? Make JAOM EXACTLY the way Joe told you to. I promise you unless you urinate in the fermenter or your kid throws a handful of pickle spears in there you will like it. Do this 2 or three times and THEN mess with the recipe and experiment.

Good God, this is frustrating.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
I'm rereading Joe's recipe (I do that quite often). I do not see any mention of boiling, scrubbing, divination or other jiggery-pokery. I definitely saw no mention of killing yeast, pasteurization, homogenization, castration or masturbation.

My new friend, why are you trying so hard to make something so beautifully simple into something overly complicated? Make JAOM EXACTLY the way Joe told you to. I promise you unless you urinate in the fermenter or your kid throws a handful of pickle spears in there you will like it. Do this 2 or three times and THEN mess with the recipe and experiment.

Good God, this is frustrating.
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Gotta read between the lines, but it is definitely there.
 
yuval12321 said:
What's your end gravity usually?

Do you think I will have to kill the yeast somehow?
Click to expand...


I did a dry and petillant (lightly carbonated) version all by taste and mouthfeel. Stovetop pasteurization on the small batch for me. Don't worry about the purists, this thread will be right back to normal after you are done with your modifications.
 
brewski09 said:
Don't worry about the purists, this thread will be right back to normal after you are done with your modifications.
Click to expand...

The problem is that people change the recipe and then ask what we think. If the entire thread is, 'just do this', and then someone comes along and is like, "but i don't have oranges and i want to use this high powered yeast and i want to add calf's blood...do you think it will come out ok?!??!"

We don't know, this is not the bloody f'd up mead thread.



:D:p:D
 
sablesurfer said:
The problem is that people change the recipe and then ask what we think. If the entire thread is, 'just do this', and then someone comes along and is like, "but i don't have oranges and i want to use this high powered yeast and i want to add calf's blood...do you think it will come out ok?!??!"

We don't know, this is not the bloody f'd up mead thread.
:D:p:D
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Saying you don't know or not saying anything is different than some of the responses this person has received. There is a lot of negativity about changing the recipe when there should be more encouragement to experiment with the disclosure that it may not turn out "right" like the original recipe. And where the heck did you get calf's blood from?
 
I just want to encourage everyone who tries this recipe to make the first couple batches exactly to specs and THEN start to play around with yeasts and fruits and adjuncts.
 
The point of this recipe aside from helping folks make a delcious drink is to introduce mead in a simple manner. No fancy setups or ingredients are needed. It's all stuff available in any grocery store.

Boiling oranges
Wine yeast
stabilization
Why, why, why? I just don't get it.

This is such a fun thing to make, its super simple, the instructions are idiot proof. By all means make mead however the heck you want but why not just do one of the other great recipes in the database where more complex process is the norm.

As the author of the recipe states. Once you do it this way you'll need to unlearn these bad habits if you want to make mead the way most mazers do.

The success of the recipe is dictated by following the recipe. It's a really good recipe. Why overcomplicate it.

Honey, water, orange, raisins, some spices, bread yeast = delicious mead in under a year using a method the ancients may have used. So fun.

JAOM 11 months old
attachment.php
 
Beware of wierd looking bottles. Opened a questionable bottle tonight. Did a poor job bottling, got too much sediment and after a year of aging tasted like bitter orange peel with a touch of banana. Kinda thought something was wrong when it was not clear like the other bottles.
 
Damn I got some problem. The airlock was bubbling till yesterday for sure, I checked it on the evening and it bubbled every ~35 seconds. Now I checked it and guess what - no bubbling! And the co2 firstly enters the airlock trying to get out, and then finds another easier way!
Is the mead ruined if it was this way for a couple of hours?

**edit: I checked now and realized that for some reason the lid is loose! When I press a little bit on the lid, the airlock bubbling like crazy about the same rate as it bubbled 4 days ago without me pressing anything! And it looked normal, every day I bubbled a little bit less. Someone got any idea what's happening (I use bucket fermenter)? :(
I believe the mead should be ok because of the vigorous fermentation, am I right?
 
I'm pushing 3 months in on my batch. The fruit dropped and I'm pretty sure I could read a book through the carboy. A few questions though, since this is my first mead:

1) Racking - The first post says not to rack. I'm fine with that, but I'm pretty sure I kick up this yeast by just looking at the carboy. If I do rack to reduce risk of yeast transfer, could I just flush the carboy with CO2 and top it off with boiled/chilled water, then cold crash it for a couple days? Do I need to sulfite it if I rack? Do you even recommend racking?

2) Bottling - Would you recommend sulfiting before bottling? I'm shooting for using 375mL bottles and leaving them untouched until late next summer for a wedding. If I can do it without sulfites, I'd like to, but I'd rather play it safe. Figured asking wouldn't hurt.

Silly questions, I know... But I've only bottled beer once before swapping to kegging, and I've never done mead/wine before this.
 
Bent-Brewer said:
1) Racking - The first post says not to rack. I'm fine with that, but I'm pretty sure I kick up this yeast by just looking at the carboy. If I do rack to reduce risk of yeast transfer, could I just flush the carboy with CO2 and top it off with boiled/chilled water, then cold crash it for a couple days? Do I need to sulfite it if I rack? Do you even recommend racking?
Click to expand...

I rack to a bottling carboy for the same reason, that yeast explodes, explodes I say, by the time I have climbed all the stairs up to kitchen. So, one rule I break is moving it to a secondary for a couple of weeks, let that settle then bottle out of that. It is just that it is not 'necessary'.

Bent-Brewer said:
2) Bottling - Would you recommend sulfiting before bottling? I'm shooting for using 375mL bottles and leaving them untouched until late next summer for a wedding. If I can do it without sulfites, I'd like to, but I'd rather play it safe. Figured asking wouldn't hurt.
Click to expand...

This mead uses bread yeast because it cannot ferment beyond it's somewhat higher final gravity. So there there is no worry about trying to kill it off with additives. The no 'ites or 'ates is one reason this is staying as my mead process. Keep in mind that you will be bottling a still mead with this recipe.
 
From, the very FIRST post, on this thread....

After 2 months and maybe a few days it will slow down to a stop and clear all by itself. (How about that) (You are not so important after all)
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and

If you wait long enough even the oranges will sink to the bottom but I never waited that long. If it is clear it is ready.
Click to expand...
 
Chifriedchicken said:
I multiplied this into a 5 gallon batch and it has already begun to clear in about 2 months. Should I be worried? Or should I just leave it alone until before Christmas I would like to bottle for gifts.

Question would be how long should it take? The oranges still have not dropped but everything else has.

https://www.facebook.com/brian.allen.376043/posts/1458523254477119
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IMO the last month of bulk aging will help if you can wait, if you need to bottle cause you might be pressed for time next month you should be fine. My last batch (early 2014) was 3 gallons. The bulk aging seemed better with the 3 gallon volume compared to the 1 gallon batches.
 
Thanks fuzz2133 I appreciate your feedback as this is is my first batch. Seems you get a little paranoid that you are doing everything correctly.
 
I have a dumb question. How do you remove the orange slices from a narrow mouthed carboy after this is done?
Heres my JOAM just started today:
I upped the oranges to two since my navel oranges seemed kinda small.

1-IMG_1430.jpg


1-IMG_1428.jpg
 

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