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**Brewskii** · 11-04-2012, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meadowstream

I think I disagree about dark candi syrup providing nearly all this beer style's flavor and color. I have bought some CSI product to test this in November, but already I brew what I think are outstanding Belgian dubbels without using any syrup at all. These taste, IMO, just like Chimay or Westmalle but maybe fresher. I use chocolate malt and aromatic and some crystal malt.

Now maybe the Westvleteren is different - I have never had it, so I don't know.

Anyway, I fully acknowledge that I could be wrong and certainly someone jumped on me higher up in this forum for suggesting that syrup was not critical. (this criticism is what is prompting me to experiment with CSI products.)

According to Stan Hironymous (sp.?) in BLAM;
you cannot brew a true Belgian style beer without sugar because part of the charicteristics of those styles ( strong ales) is the relatively low body for the high alcohol. This cannot be achieved with malt alone, regardless of mash temps.

Not to say you can't brew some really good beers w/o it, just not true Belgian style strong's.

ultravista · 11-04-2012, 03:54 PM

I'm going to go with the New World recipe but with a single infusion mash. I just listened to the Sean Paxton Rochefort tour podcast and it inspired me. While not a Rochefort, the Westy 12 is in the same ballpark. I can't wait.

ultravista · 11-09-2012, 01:03 PM

I pulled trigger on the new world recipe and ordered my grains yesterday.

ultravista · 11-11-2012, 03:24 AM

Looking for advice on saving/washing or repurposing the Abby strain of yeast for a Rochefort 10 clone after the Westy.

I'm not too sure that I want to save the Abby yeast post-ferment unless someone talks me into it. I've heard/read that such a high gravity stresses the the yeast to the point where it shouldn't be reused.

So .. I was thinking about building a starter and decanting some of it for the next batch vs. washing the yeast cake post Westy fermentation.

Any suggestions?

**bottlebomber** · 11-11-2012, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultravista

I'm not too sure that I want to save the Abby yeast post-ferment unless someone talks me into it. I've heard/read that such a high gravity stresses the the yeast to the point where it shouldn't be reused.

So they say. However, do you think that breweries that brew high gravity beers are buying fresh yeast every time? I think not my friend..

ultravista · 11-11-2012, 02:44 PM

Good point bottlebomber. I hadn't thought of it that way.

Nyrkki · 11-11-2012, 07:50 PM

I would collect the yeast at high kraussen. The yeast will be much more viable, and not as stressed as the yeast that you can collect when the fermentation is over.

Alternatively you can create a truly big starer and pitch only half of that to the westy. You can save the rest for further use without risk of infection or stressed yeast.

**CSI** · 11-11-2012, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyrkki

I would collect the yeast at high kraussen. The yeast will be much more viable, and not as stressed as the yeast that you can collect when the fermentation is over.

Yes. +1.

**CSI** · 11-11-2012, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultravista

Looking for advice on saving/washing or repurposing the Abby strain of yeast for a Rochefort 10 clone after the Westy.

I'm not too sure that I want to save the Abby yeast post-ferment unless someone talks me into it. I've heard/read that such a high gravity stresses the the yeast to the point where it shouldn't be reused.

So .. I was thinking about building a starter and decanting some of it for the next batch vs. washing the yeast cake post Westy fermentation.

Any suggestions?

Washing yeast can be done but it can be a hit/miss for infection. Sterile harvesting at high krausen is a great way of collecting high quality yeast for reuse. Chris White and Jamil's volume on "Yeast" is our go to guide. It's also a fantastic read.

BTW, does anybody know how Jamil's new Micro Brewery is going?

ultravista · 11-12-2012, 12:54 AM

I ferment in a 6.5 gallon carboy, unless there's something special, I do not know how to capture yeast krausen.

I normally do 1.8L starters. I can decant some off, maybe the .8 liter and save it. It will be used to build another starter for the next batch. That should be enough dontcha think?