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Old 11-01-2012, 04:25 PM   #791
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Originally Posted by JordanThomas

How can you say the quality of my homemade syrup is less than the quality of the stuff you buy on the shelves? That's like saying the quality of Budweiser is greater than that of your homebrew just because it's got a neat package and is sold on retailer shelves. Again, I don't buy that.
You don't have to buy it. You are free to make your own syrup, and see how you like the end product and that is the beauty of home brewing. We don't have to drink it and you do, so in the end none of use have any real stake in what you choose. Use dark Karo syrup if you want.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:33 PM   #792
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You don't have to buy it. You are free to make your own syrup, and see how you like the end product and that is the beauty of home brewing. We don't have to drink it and you do, so in the end none of use have any real stake in what you choose. Use dark Karo syrup if you want.
I understand these things. This is why I've asked if anyone has tried to brew this with BOTH homemade and the retail product to compare. Oh well.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:34 PM   #793
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Dark candi syrup is heavily caramelized and contributes towards NEARLY ALL of this beer styles flavor and color. You get heavy dark chocolate, candied cherry, caramel and other tasty things that you simply wont get anywhere else.
I think I disagree about dark candi syrup providing nearly all this beer style's flavor and color. I have bought some CSI product to test this in November, but already I brew what I think are outstanding Belgian dubbels without using any syrup at all. These taste, IMO, just like Chimay or Westmalle but maybe fresher. I use chocolate malt and aromatic and some crystal malt.

Now maybe the Westvleteren is different - I have never had it, so I don't know.

Anyway, I fully acknowledge that I could be wrong and certainly someone jumped on me higher up in this forum for suggesting that syrup was not critical. (this criticism is what is prompting me to experiment with CSI products.)
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:11 PM   #794
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Getting back to the spirit of Belgian quad awesomeness, has anyone brewed a Rochefort 10 recently? If yes, please share ...

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Old 11-02-2012, 07:01 PM   #795
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I've made awesome syrup and great beers with it.

There isn't necessarily a compromise on quality, but the flavors, aromas, and mouthfeel will be different (and the differences may be only subtle). They are different between the two available commercial products. Try a couple of batches with the different commercial products while you tweak your homemade syrup.

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Old 11-03-2012, 11:36 AM   #796
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Originally Posted by meadowstream View Post
I think I disagree about dark candi syrup providing nearly all this beer style's flavor and color. I have bought some CSI product to test this in November, but already I brew what I think are outstanding Belgian dubbels without using any syrup at all. These taste, IMO, just like Chimay or Westmalle but maybe fresher. I use chocolate malt and aromatic and some crystal malt.

Now maybe the Westvleteren is different - I have never had it, so I don't know.

Anyway, I fully acknowledge that I could be wrong and certainly someone jumped on me higher up in this forum for suggesting that syrup was not critical. (this criticism is what is prompting me to experiment with CSI products.)
saq is the originator of this thread. Also, he is an award winning brewer and has been invited to professional Craft Brewing facilities to demonstrate his skill (and recipe). I would tend to take his advice a little more seriously.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:38 AM   #797
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Originally Posted by orangehero View Post
I've made awesome syrup and great beers with it.

There isn't necessarily a compromise on quality, but the flavors, aromas, and mouthfeel will be different (and the differences may be only subtle). They are different between the two available commercial products. Try a couple of batches with the different commercial products while you tweak your homemade syrup.
Most kitchen syrup recipes create a fairly large list of unacceptable acids in the process due to shortcut chemical additives. The equipment required to coax the correct flavors out of beet sugar and the multiple physical processes required to do it are not something that can be done in a kitchen. I know the web is filled with recipes for these syrups (some are really questionable). Years ago we also thought making Candi Syrup was a simple proposition and followed some of the same ideas. Brew trials proved out what was workable and what was not. None of the stove top syrup recipes were acceptable by our standards. Creating a syrup of sorts isn't that difficult but creating a real old world Candi Syrup is a different set of challenges. Most kitchen syrup recipes can be created in 30-45 minutes. A genuine Candi Syrup takes a minimum of 3 days to create and finish. It's time consuming. It isn't as simple as boiling sugar on a resistance burner and tossing in some chemicals. I've bumped up against my NDA to say this much but some clarity is really needed on this because of all the mis-information out there. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from making their own kitchen syrups but wanted to clarify expectations.

Apologies to saq for the excursion. Back to the Westy 12 thread...
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:32 PM   #798
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X2!

I started with the standard old world recipe and quickly began tinkering with the recipe from brew to brew. Now I'm brewing it with Legacy hops decoction temp raise, and closer to 40ibus. Sometimes I add a touch of acidulated malt too.

For me anymore it's about what I want not what another brewery makes.
I live for this kind of innovation!
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:09 PM   #799
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You don't have to buy it. You are free to make your own syrup, and see how you like the end product and that is the beauty of home brewing. We don't have to drink it and you do, so in the end none of use have any real stake in what you choose. Use dark Karo syrup if you want.
+1 Well said.
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Old 11-04-2012, 04:32 AM   #800
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+1 to saq, I plan on brewing some sort of variation based on saqs recipe but the main distinction will be that I buy my Belgian candy sugar instead of making my own because #1 I don't know how to do that and #2 I don't have the freaking time to figure it out.

If I was single, didn't have kids that may be a different story but that is not the case so my brewing days are limited so I need to focus on successful brewdays on brewday #1

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