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Old 02-04-2011, 04:59 AM   #131
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If you've got some good stuff I'd be more than happy to listen to how its made or try some of it out myself!

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Old 02-04-2011, 03:41 PM   #132
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That's pretty intense. You planning some sort of business venture with that stuff? Or can you divulge techniques?
Yes, we are planning to provide a commercial product and are soliciting equipment bids and designing production engineering now. I think American brewers deserve a consistent product that is always available and high quality. As we progress we'll keep all of the boards informed. Some free 1 lb carafes of our products will also be made available for the craft industry and home brewers to trial.
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Old 02-04-2011, 03:48 PM   #133
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If you've got some good stuff I'd be more than happy to listen to how its made or try some of it out myself!
saq, certainly. When we begin production we will also offer sample 1 lb carafe's of our three initial syrups. We will be glad to send out samples to you.

Although planning and marketing will be ongoing we will only ask for recipients to pay flat-rate shipping charges for the free sample pack (3 lbs of syrup per flat rate box...$5-6).

We'll keep all of the brewing boards informed.
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Old 02-04-2011, 03:51 PM   #134
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saq, certainly. When we begin production we will also offer sample 1 lb tetra-packs of our three initial syrups. We will be glad to send out samples to you.

Although planning and marketing will be ongoing we will only ask for recipients to pay flat-rate shipping charges for the samples (3 lbs of syrup per flat rate box...$5-6).

We'll keep all of the brewing boards informed.
Nice, I'm down for brewing another batch and letting you know how it turns out.
What are the details on your product you are aiming for? SRM? Flavor profile?
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Old 02-04-2011, 04:15 PM   #135
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Candi Syrups cannot be done with standard kitchen equipment. We tried dozens of permutations using stove top methods and simply could not approximate D2, (the most difficult by far). Without discussing the process in too much detail, (we've spent a fair amount of capital doing this), we use only 3 natural ingredients. We also went through quite a few Maillard catalysts all of which did "work" but the compounds produced were either a mismatch or in the wrong mole density, (my brother-in-law's words not mine). We found only one which provided the flavor profile that matched up and even exceeded our expectations.

Since I'm an analyst not a chemist and also a home brewer, (6 year anniversary next week!), my job has been to set up the permutation trials then test the syrups in Belgian brews. In a month we'll have our Westvletern 12 trial clones ready to taste, (first one ended too high FG at 1.0194).

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Old 02-04-2011, 04:21 PM   #136
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I'm glad to hear about this. I've taken to making my own stovetop maillard syrups and have gotten good flavors, but I'd love to have the option of having something more consistent and/or authentic.

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Old 02-04-2011, 04:30 PM   #137
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Nice, I'm down for brewing another batch and letting you know how it turns out.
What are the details on your product you are aiming for? SRM? Flavor profile?
saq, that's the interesting part. We have the ability to target SRM exactly based on the thermal process we've trialed. We will likely not be naming our Syrups after the Belgian imports. The SRM will initially be slightly darker by design. The D2 will become D180 at 180 SRM. D1 will become D90 as expected.

Flavor profiles will be richer and more up front on the palate. They have dried-fruit, fig, prune, caramel, dark-toffee, coffee, and dark chocolate flavors.

Also, we've found that the flavor profiles are so rich that you can use 15%-20% less syrup if you choose and still get the intense flavor profile. This will give the home-brewer more leeway if the gravity comes up a point or two high due to an unexpected bump in BH efficiency.
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Old 02-04-2011, 04:37 PM   #138
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I'm glad to hear about this. I've taken to making my own stovetop maillard syrups and have gotten good flavors, but I'd love to have the option of having something more consistent and/or authentic.
I hope I didn't mis-speak. Certainly very flavorful syrups can be made on the stove-top and they do make fine beer but there are a number of issues and problems related to these. We hope our syrups will be an eye opener and a means to up the stakes in the 16E category.
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Old 02-04-2011, 06:28 PM   #139
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I'm planning on brewing this next week although I'm not sure which recipe I'm going to use. Have people been brewing the new world or the traditional? They seem so very different. It's surprising to me that they produce similar beers. I guess it's surprising to me in general that many belgian brewers have pretty simple recipes in terms of malts used but end up with such complex flavors.

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Old 02-04-2011, 09:07 PM   #140
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I'm planning on brewing this next week although I'm not sure which recipe I'm going to use. Have people been brewing the new world or the traditional? They seem so very different. It's surprising to me that they produce similar beers. I guess it's surprising to me in general that many belgian brewers have pretty simple recipes in terms of malts used but end up with such complex flavors.
saq would be the expert on this but we brewed the Pious Traditional recipe due to its closer-to-Abbey authenticity but I must admit the time and effort this HBT team did on the Pious New World was impressive. If fermentation temp control and ramping is possible on your setup the simple grain bill will result in an intensely complex brew. We built up a 3rd generation Westmalle from a slant and under-pitched a little. Now that we have this sighted in, the FG should be exact.

saq can better give you the pros and cons of each.
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