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Old 01-05-2013, 01:30 PM   #991
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Originally Posted by ultravista
g-star, where in PA are you? I grew-up in Newville and lived in Mechanicsburg, Harrisburg, Camp Hill, Carlisle, and New Cumberland.

I was back in PA in August.
Philly metro
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:48 PM   #992
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smokinghole - olive oil method?

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Old 01-05-2013, 05:16 PM   #993
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smokinghole - olive oil method?
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/usin...-oxygen-47872/
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:19 PM   #994
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I add it to my boil, but in the Hull thesis paper he added it to the yeast a certain amount of hours prior to pitching. Then they did not aerate . It is tough to measure the necessary amount at our scale. At work using 100bbl fermentors and 1.5bbl pitches of yeast slurry it is measured in the microliters somewhere around 300microliters actually. That was based on the paper using whatever quantity in micrograms which I converted to uL using the density of oliveoil

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Old 01-05-2013, 08:09 PM   #995
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Originally Posted by CSI View Post
After 5 long batches from last Fall we have decided on our favorite variation to saq's outstanding recipe. Most of our team from Candi Syrup, Inc concluded unanimously that this is as near perfect to an actual Westvletern 12 that we have tasted in our test batches using D180. Hats off to saq and team. Here is our adjusted recipe:

WESTVLETEREN 12 CLONE - VARIATION 005

SPECS:
Yeast: WLP530 or WY3787
Yeast Starter: 1.75L - 2.0L (Stir plate required)
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
IBU: 34
SRM: 35
OG: 1.092
FG: 1.012
ABV: 11.36%
Boil Size: 7.50 gal
Boil Time: 120 Minutes

MASH WATER
9.00 Gallons spring water.

FERMENTATION:
Primary: 7 days in glass @ 65F ramp controlled to 83F
Secondary: 7 days @ 65F
Additional: 49 days @ 50 - 52F

FERMENTABLES
3.00 lbs D180 Belgian-style Candi Syrup (Candi Syrup, Inc.)
12.0 lbs Dingemann's Belgian Pilsner
4.00 lbs Dingemann's Belgian Pale
0.10 lbs Belgian Debittered black malt (very important addition here)

HOPS
1.00 oz Brewers Gold [9.70 %] (60 min)
1.00 oz Hersbrucker [2.40 %] (30 min)
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [4.10 %] (25 min)

OTHER
1 - Servomyces tab (optional)

MASH SCHEDULE
Protein Rest: @ 132.0 F (9 gallons in), 30 min.
Low Saccharification: @152F. (Decoction), 35 min.
High Saccharification: @158F. (Decoction), 35 min.

NOTES
Note, add syrup at 3 minutes prior to flame-out. Chill to 65F. Pitch and ramp temp from 65F to 82-83F over 5 days and hold at 83F for 2 days more. At this point you should be near a gravity of 1.020. Rack to secondary at 65f for another 7 days then let "languish" for 49 days at 55-60F in glass. If your yeast is strong and your candi syrup is premium, (we're biased), you should hit terminal gravity 1.012 in about 21 days. Bottle or keg after another 28 days (total 49 days). Fantastic after 5 months...getting better every month after.

Final notes: the Brewers Gold hops was a very good choice for authenticity in this ale. It added that slightly needed additional flavor profile for a perfect Westy 12 clone. Also, saccharification temps at first glance look high but we found over trial and error that the higher temps contribute to the unique "chewy" mouth-feel and texture and helps the flavors linger on the palate. Last but not least, we tried to keep this recipe simple with the candi syrup, yeast, and hops developing the flavors on a simple base of 2 grains, (w/ a pinch of black malt for aging stability). This ale is a genuine work of art.

Cheers!

www.candisyrup.com
CSI,

What is the purpose of dropping from 83 to 65 for 21 days to finish it off? what happens if you leave it at 83 until it reaches 1.012? I'm at 1.020 now i am getting banana flavors and im not sure if that's what is expected. Does the banana mellow out with age?
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:52 PM   #996
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Originally Posted by saq View Post
I have gotten a few PMs from people who followed the two Westvleteren 12 threads I did regarding trying to clone this recipe and a competition with the other people who were in on it so I'm posting up my notes.

There are two ways of making this, a "New World" recipe that uses specialty malts, and a "Traditional" recipe that goes by the way Westvleteren has been making it for a while with just two basemalts and sugar.

The Pious New World - Took 1st place & BOS in the Westvleteren 12 clone comp with 43 points beating out a real Westvleteren 12 with 40 points.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.54 gal
Estimated OG: 1.090 SG
Estimated Color: 26.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 38.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
13.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 74.71 %
1.00 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 5.53 %
0.50 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 2.77 %
0.33 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 1.83 %
0.25 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 1.38 %
0.19 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.05 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (90 min) Hops 24.7 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.40 %] (30 min)Hops 5.0 IBU
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [4.10 %] (30 min) Hops 8.5 IBU
1.00 item Servomyces (10 min)
1.50 lb Dark Belgian Candi Syrup (80.0 SRM) Sugar 8.30 %
0.75 lb Amber Belgian Candi Syrup (40.0 SRM) Sugar 4.43 %
1 Pkgs Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 15.77 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
90 min Mash In Add 24.00 qt of water at 159.3 F 150.0 F


The Pious Traditional - I like this better than the New World.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 8.27 gal
Estimated OG: 1.092 SG
Estimated Color: 33.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 35.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 42.11 %
8.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 42.11 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (90 min) Hops 25.7 IBU
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [4.10 %] (20 min) Hops 7.0 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.80 %] (20 min)Hops 2.4 IBU
3.00 lb Dark 2 Belgian Candi Syrup (160.0 SRM) Sugar 15.79 %
1 Pkgs Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) Yeast-Ale
1lbs sugar added to beginning of boil, 1lbs added to last 5, 1lbs added in secondary.

Mash Schedule: Decoction Mash, Double
Total Grain Weight: 16.00 lb
----------------------------
Decoction Mash, Double
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
10 min Protein Rest Add 32.00 qt of water at 137.5 F 132.0 F
30 min Saccharification Decoct 8.79 qt of mash and boil it 151.0 F
30 min Saccharification Decoct 4.85 qt of mash and boil it 159.0 F

Same yeast is used in both, and same fermentation schedule is used in both. Chill the wort down to 65f, pitch and let it self rise to about 82-83f and try to hold it there. The yeast will keep the temp there for about 5 days when fermentation is about 80% done (about 1.018) and start to chill down to 65f until you hit terminal gravity at 1.012 which should take 2 days. After this rack off into a secondary (I did kegs for both as I keg conditioned) and chill to 50f for 7 weeks, then carb however you want.
Saq,

My first attempt fermented down to 1.020 in 2 days???? Any reason why this would happen and why yours took 5 days at 83f? i let mine self rise to 81 over the course of 24 hours and by 48 hours I was down to 1.020 already. I pitched a 3.8Liter starter without a stirplate(intermittent shaking) and no oxygen was added I just shook the fermenter so approx 8ppm max. Any thoughts??
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:26 PM   #997
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Did you dump the entire 3.8L starter or just the yeast? That's approximately 1 gallon.

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Old 01-05-2013, 09:56 PM   #998
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Did you dump the entire 3.8L starter or just the yeast? That's approximately 1 gallon.
No i crashed cooled it until it all fell to the bottom and decanted before i pitched it. I didnt use a stir plate so i shouldn't have over pitched really.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:48 AM   #999
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CSI,

What is the purpose of dropping from 83 to 65 for 21 days to finish it off? what happens if you leave it at 83 until it reaches 1.012? I'm at 1.020 now i am getting banana flavors and im not sure if that's what is expected. Does the banana mellow out with age?
Our current trial is at 017x. The 005 trial back in 2010 called for 7 days primary, and 7 days secondary at 65 and then cellar temps at 55F for 49 days. This was also before we began using FM-15's and the V350MS System for greater control over ramping.

Varying yeast temps to vary the ester profile was our goal then. Westmalle at 65-70F results in a combination of slight spice to grape esters. Higher, (74 - 80F), for darker stone fruit esters, etc. Too high in the range above 84F for banana. We prefer not to get into the range of phenols/banana. I have been told that banana phenols can age-out but have no proof either way.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:24 AM   #1000
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The westmalle yeast produces a chocolate banana kind of flavor to varying degrees across the temperature profile, its fairly subtle and compliments well with fig/date kinds of characters it makes that are also present from the grist/candi syrup. Don't worry about your fermentation time to FG unless its going really long, but you will want to let it sit and condition per the guidelines outlined in this thread.

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