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Old 01-05-2013, 05:12 AM   #51
aaronkaz
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Assuming that Duvel does use corn sugar and a yeast strain at least similar to the WLP570 that is claimed to be 'the one', I have found in my own attempts that I simply do not like either one of those ingredients used in this context and have just dropped the whole mission to clone it. Corn sugar puts off these cidery flavors, and I just don't really like WLP570 with anything I've tried. And this may be because of my brew setup as highgravitybacon alludes to. Those elements don't work for me and thus I have found what DOES work for me in creating a pleasurable Golden Strong.

Its also your taste. What do you want? I like it super dry so I both mash low and add sugar (evaporated cane juice crystals or clear candi syrup) during primary. Also, I oxygenate well before pitching and do open primary fermentations, so I consistently hit the higher end of attenuation with whatever strain I'm using. If I want a little more body, I'll either mash a little higher or add all the sugar to the boil. There is a flavor difference because of the carmelization that happens in the kettle. Sugar added to the fermenter, in my taste, has a 'raw' sort of flavor. "Tastes like sugar" whereas the boiled sugar incorporates with the malt better in my taste. And in that case, I don't mind the flavor of boiled dextrose or cheap white sugar, but can't stand it unboiled.

Whatever you do, I think the style requires some personal experimentation. Good luck!

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Old 01-06-2013, 02:08 PM   #52
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Very nice. Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Guess its time for me to start experimenting...first up - Pranqster clone. Lets see how close I can get; or end up with a good Strong Golden Ale, anyway.

Prost!

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Old 01-08-2013, 02:41 PM   #53
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So I make beer and my dad makes wine and I want to try and make a collaboration brew with some grape juice in it. My dad has some old vine Zinfandel grapes and I was thinking I'd use this Duvel recipe for the beer. I want to put grape juice in the primary with the beer yeast. Anybody have any thoughts how this would work out? Too fruity? And thoughts on not adding the sugar as the grape juice should be very fermentable? I was thinking of doing something around a 4/1 ratio beer to grape juice. maybe 9/1

Thanks

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Old 01-09-2013, 05:33 PM   #54
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Question about fermentation temps for Duvel or similar GSA?
After fermentor temp is ramped to 80 deg F (over 1 week) should I just leave it at 80F for a few weeks?
OR drop back down to 70 deg F after a period of time for additional conditioning in the primary?

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Old 01-09-2013, 10:15 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jCOSbrew View Post
Question about fermentation temps for Duvel or similar GSA?
After fermentor temp is ramped to 80 deg F (over 1 week) should I just leave it at 80F for a few weeks?
OR drop back down to 70 deg F after a period of time for additional conditioning in the primary?
Once fermentation is done, I would (did) lager it at 30f for a few weeks to clear it up. Mine tastes kind of boozy. Not sure if I under pitched, ramped temps up too quickly or what. I'm not sure if I f-ed it up.

I've been lagering it for a while, and I'll bottle condition for a few months and see if it turns out.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:19 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronkaz View Post
I think the 'it depends' statement may really translate to: are you trying to duplicate the Duvel process, or are you just trying to brew a good Golden Strong?

In my opinion, and in my homebrewing experience, cloning a specific Belgian beer is quite hard to attain. Whereas, I've had great success brewing Belgian-style ales in general. With American styles, if you match the malt bill and hop schedule, you can get pretty close to spot on. However, with Belgians, there are often so few ingredients you're really left trying to mimic the respective breweries processes and proprietary 'x-factors'.

For example, take Duvel .... (I wish I could find the link to this old obscure-looking article I found a while back, which had specific times, temps, and gravities, but here it is paraphrased)
#1 - Ramp style mash - bring malt from somewhere in the 120-130F range up to 160F at a constant rate over the course of 90 or so minutes. Of course, the grain they use is malted specifically for Moortgat to their specifications.
#2 - After boil, where SOME of the sugar is added (they mention dextrose/corn sugar), the wort is split into two separate fermentations with 2 proprietary yeast strains to each respectively. From what I remember, one strain provides most of the signature esters and flavors but is not as attenuative while the other is more neutral in flavor but highly attenuative. One of the yeasts is Scottish in origin.
#3 - After primary fermentation is complete, the batches are lagered for 2-3 weeks.
#4 - The batches are blended together in unknown proportions, brought back up to ale ferm. temp (low 60's F), and the rest of the dextrose and more yeast (of the high attenuation type) is added.
#5 - After a slower secondary fermentation (10-14 days) is complete, the beer undergoes a second lagering phase.
#6 - bottle conditioning - plenty of info online for this step

Whew!!
I remember reading a similar article. Makes me despair at ever doing a really good clone.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:53 PM   #57
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Default Double Duval?


After reading all of these pages I think I've found my inspiration for a crazy high gravity Belgian Golden Strong. I've wanted the challenge of brewing a quality high abv beer, and the opportunity to do some more Belgians. So...hijacking this recipe sounded like a perfect idea! Any suggestions to my proposed shenanigans?

5 Gallons
OG 1.091
FG 1.006
ABV 11.14%
5.5 SRM
34 IBU

90 minute boil
16# Pilsner (Bel)
10oz Carapils
1# Corn Sugar (added @ 15 min)
1# Clear Candi Sugar (added @ 15 min)

1 oz Saaz FWH
1.25 Strian Goldings @90 Min
1 oz Saaz 15 min
1 oz Citra dry hop 7 days

Yeast - yeast cake from 1.050 brew using Wyeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity
Mash - 75 minutes at 150 so it's nice and dry.


I realize Citra isn't traditional, but I think the hop would really add to the aroma. Especially since it will dissipate with time since I'm bottle conditioning this beer.

What temp should I ferment at? Start at mid 60's and bring it up? Or just let it slowly gurgle away 65? Suggestions on staggering the sugar additions to keep the yeasties eating away?

Any suggestions would be appreciated! I'll be brewing this one the first of feb. I wasn't sure if people would read it, but I did post it here too http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/doub...8/#post4785140

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Old 01-15-2013, 02:47 PM   #58
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3737 isnt usually the yeast of golden strong, but it would handle the abv, so not bad choice. Adding half of sugar after primary begins to slow would be a fail safe that i would use. I love the citra plan! All in all it will be a massive success as is tho. So youve done good.

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Old 02-19-2013, 05:15 PM   #59
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Wanted to share my results on this thread since it is close my attempt at Jamil's Duvel clone recipe from Brewing Classic Styles. I did this recipe PM, BIAB with a 7.5 gallon kettle on my stove top. Here are the stats:

7 lbs Pils Two-Row
3 lbs Pilsen DME
2.5 lbs Cane sugar @30 minutes
US Saaz and Styrian Golding additions to hit 33 IBU

-Mash Pils and DME together @147 for 2 hours. Dunk sparge @165 for 10 minutes.
-Added a gallon of spring water to reach ~6 gallons going into boil
-90 minute boil
-Chill
-Aerate with drill mixer
-Pitched 3 packs of 1388
-OG 1.084 (anticipated only 1.079 w/75% efficiency)
-Ferment for 3 days at 66degF
-Raise temp to 80degF and hold for 5 days
-Let temp settle back to ambient ~68degF

After 11 days total my FG was 1.006!!! ~10% ABV. Gravity sample was a little boozy but also could pick up some fruityness like a cross between tangerine and Asian pear in the background. I plan on letting this sit in the fermenter at room temp for about two more weeks before I keg it and let it carb at 12 PSI.

My results confirm that yes, you can remash DME with base grain to make it more fermentable. I'm very encouraged by how things have come along so far and encourage anyone to try this recipe if you are looking for a Duvel clone.

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Old 03-14-2013, 06:03 PM   #60
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Brewed my first BGSA and it turned out well after a couple months of aging, however, there is not a lot of the fruity yeast esters that I get from commercial examples of BGSA.

Is this typical of the Duvel yeast strain?

Maybe I will do the temp ramp soon on my next batch. This batch fermented quickly with good attenuation but without much krausen compared to the american ale yeast strains I typically use.

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