Home Brew Forums > Recipe Database > HomeBrewTalk.com Recipe Database > Belgian Strong Ale > All-Grain - Duvel Clone

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-19-2012, 05:36 PM   #41
HumanGarbage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 70
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default


Dgonza9,

I do 5 gallon batches and my element is 4500w run on 120v (maybe 1125w). It has been no problem for me to set the temp to 170 and let it run itself up. I usually start at 120 and it takes about 1:15 to get up there. No scorching evident on the element post mash either...

I know it doesn't answer your question per se, just food for thought.

__________________
HumanGarbage is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2012, 01:04 AM   #42
mmcshmi11
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Santa Clara
Posts: 9
Default


Have not done my Duvel clone yet, but it will be my next brew... and there is a lot of great information in this thread.

One thing I noticed is that nobody mentioned harvesting yeast from a bottle of Duvel. In an experiment with my Tripel, I harvested Orval yeast by basically dumping a little bit of cooled DME wort into a bottle of Orval dreggs. After a few days on top of the fridge, it was fermenting and smelled just like Orval. Now, a year later, the 5 bottles I dumped this into have a nice acidic character that reminds me of Orval (and it was not infected!). I have listened to cloning podcasts by Jamil and he has said something similar is expected.

There has been a lot of talk about mashing temperatures and other processes for getting the attenuation needed. I think part of the reason some people may not be getting the low FG they want is that the yeast simply doesn't attenuate that well. If you think about a professional brewery, every % point in attenuation means cost savings by requiring less grain for each batch. With millions of bottles of beer, higher attenuation will mean more profit for the brewery.

I have heard of others stepping up dreggs from some Bruery beers (20mL > 50mL > 100mL > 200mL > 500mL > 1L > 2L) and attenuation was something ridiculous like 97%. It makes sense that better yeast means you don't need as much of it (or grains) to get the same amount of alcohol through better attenuation.

Even if you find out what yeast a brewery uses for its beer it does not guarantee you will get that beer. I guarantee that the house strain at Duvel has mutated away from whatever strain it started from initially (WLP570 is mentioned in the first post of this thread). I'm curious if anybody else has used Duvel dreggs and whether they were successful. I will post my results from my next brew, but it will be a few months

__________________
mmcshmi11 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2012, 12:36 PM   #43
etrain666
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
etrain666's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Parker
Posts: 127
Liked 6 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default


Found this thread in a search. Recently did a batch similar to this recipe, but used dark candi sugar for added color. I did a single infusion mash at 144. Fermented at 69 for two days with WLP545, then ramped it up to 75 and added 2 pounds of corn sugar. Finished at 1.0005. Pretty darn dry and 11.5% ABV. Bottling this weekend.

__________________
etrain666 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2012, 01:17 AM   #44
highgravitybacon
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 891
Liked 202 Times on 141 Posts
Likes Given: 150

Default


Used the Jamil recipe. 80/20 pils malt and sugar. Mash @ 149. Hops were Wilamette at 75 and 45. Maybe a half ounce each time. 30 min add one oz Saaz.

90 min boil. SG was 1.074. Goal was 1.072. At about a week, it was down to 1.009. Quite fruity taste with some peppery thing going on. Wyeast 1388. About two days at 60. Then heated up over three days to 81.

I used beet sugar. The cheap stuff from Aldi. By boiling it for 75 min, you in theory should make invert sugar by time and heat alone.

Still copious yeast in suspension.

I see people adding fruit and **** to this recipe. Totally unnecessary. It is plenty, and I mean bordering on excessive, fruity.

__________________
highgravitybacon is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-03-2013, 12:38 AM   #45
Brizonian
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Richmond
Posts: 13
Default


What's the general consensus on when to add the sugar?

__________________
Brizonian is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-03-2013, 01:26 AM   #46
highgravitybacon
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 891
Liked 202 Times on 141 Posts
Likes Given: 150

Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brizonian View Post
What's the general consensus on when to add the sugar?
There is no consensus. If it works at boil, add at boil. If it wouldn't attenuate, add during fermentation.
__________________
highgravitybacon is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2013, 02:55 AM   #47
Brizonian
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Richmond
Posts: 13
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by highgravitybacon

There is no consensus. If it works at boil, add at boil. If it wouldn't attenuate, add during fermentation.
Huh?

What are the differences I can expect between adding the sugar at the start of the boil, end of boil, or in the primary? Is there no difference?
__________________
Brizonian is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2013, 11:51 PM   #48
highgravitybacon
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 891
Liked 202 Times on 141 Posts
Likes Given: 150

Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brizonian View Post
Huh?

What are the differences I can expect between adding the sugar at the start of the boil, end of boil, or in the primary? Is there no difference?
It depends. Try it and see. Nobody has your kettle, your fermenter, or your setup. The simplest is to put it in during the boil. But if you're not getting the attenuation you want, put it in during fermentation. This is a recommendation from Brewing Classic Styles.

You seem frustrated at the answer, but you are dealing with a living organism and thousands of variables. What works for me won't work for you every time. Hence, the no consensus.
__________________
highgravitybacon is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2013, 01:19 AM   #49
germanmade84
Registered User
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 108
Liked 9 Times on 7 Posts

Default


Add once they ferment has somewhat slowed.

__________________
germanmade84 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2013, 03:50 AM   #50
aaronkaz
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Asheville
Posts: 33
Liked 6 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default


I think the 'it depends' statement may really translate to: are you trying to duplicate the Duvel process, or are you just trying to brew a good Golden Strong?

In my opinion, and in my homebrewing experience, cloning a specific Belgian beer is quite hard to attain. Whereas, I've had great success brewing Belgian-style ales in general. With American styles, if you match the malt bill and hop schedule, you can get pretty close to spot on. However, with Belgians, there are often so few ingredients you're really left trying to mimic the respective breweries processes and proprietary 'x-factors'.

For example, take Duvel .... (I wish I could find the link to this old obscure-looking article I found a while back, which had specific times, temps, and gravities, but here it is paraphrased)
#1 - Ramp style mash - bring malt from somewhere in the 120-130F range up to 160F at a constant rate over the course of 90 or so minutes. Of course, the grain they use is malted specifically for Moortgat to their specifications.
#2 - After boil, where SOME of the sugar is added (they mention dextrose/corn sugar), the wort is split into two separate fermentations with 2 proprietary yeast strains to each respectively. From what I remember, one strain provides most of the signature esters and flavors but is not as attenuative while the other is more neutral in flavor but highly attenuative. One of the yeasts is Scottish in origin.
#3 - After primary fermentation is complete, the batches are lagered for 2-3 weeks.
#4 - The batches are blended together in unknown proportions, brought back up to ale ferm. temp (low 60's F), and the rest of the dextrose and more yeast (of the high attenuation type) is added.
#5 - After a slower secondary fermentation (10-14 days) is complete, the beer undergoes a second lagering phase.
#6 - bottle conditioning - plenty of info online for this step

Whew!!

__________________

I Love Microbes!

aaronkaz is offline  
JLo Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Allagash Tripel Clone or Duvel Clone recipe? jbenedetto Recipes/Ingredients 33 01-19-2013 03:08 AM
365 Beers - Duvel Clone Kugster Recipes/Ingredients 0 01-19-2009 01:50 AM
Beer Clone Book Question (re-using yeast from Duvel) BearsWickedBrew Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 2 10-22-2008 05:19 PM
Duvel Clone, RAMP MASH The Pol All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 10 08-26-2008 09:08 AM
Duvel Clone Questions reedequine All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 1 01-13-2007 11:55 PM