Home Brew Forums > Recipe Database > HomeBrewTalk.com Recipe Database > Belgian Strong Ale > Extract - Belgian Trippel (2006 World Beer Cup Gold Medal: Dragonmead Final Absolution clone)

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Old 10-21-2010, 05:54 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by HuRRiC4Ne View Post
You can always use normal sugar, try to look for surgar that was made from beets.

- figure out your efficiency before you add the surgar.
- I would go with a 2 to 1 ratio, two cups of water and one cup of DME with nutrients. Do a 15min boil on the DME, cool it down, then put in a container and add yeast.
Thanks...I already got Belgian candi sugar from my LHBS in my order - with an 8% discount through my brewer's association, it works out to be a little cheaper anyways than any other sugar I was able to find.

For basic starters, I had always heard a 1-1 ratio (1 cup DME to 1 pint water), but in this case, I'll do 2 cups - which I don't think is much more liquid than a pint. I'll definitely let everyone know how it goes.
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Old 10-21-2010, 06:17 PM   #102
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You want a 1.040 gravity for the starter

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Old 10-25-2010, 05:27 PM   #103
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Brewing went well...by Beersmith calculations, I ended up with a 66-70% efficiency - which I'll blame on perhaps adding less water than needed in the original mash and the LHBS crushing.

However, I was definitely pissed off that my LHBS forgot to include the candi sugar in the order. Typically, for pickup orders such as these, they'll include sealed items on top of the milled grains inside a paper grocery bag - which is then taped up. I was surprised, to say the least, not to find any sugar when I was setting up everything on Saturday.

In a pinch, I was only able to get about .75 lbs of organic cane sugar into the boil. I ended up with a 1.075 starting gravity. I might try Lodovico's post primary fermentation sugar addition - boiling up 2 cups/dextrose to a pint of water - then adding it in after the fact.

Fermentation, on the other hand, has been going well - no blowoff in my 6g carboy - with a temp of 71-72. Nice solid krauzen head though. I'm going to wait till it goes down to add the dextrose mix.

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Old 10-26-2010, 05:21 PM   #104
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I dumped in my dextrose mix about 30 minutes ago (2 cups dextrose to 2 cups water & boiled for 10 minutes). Krauzen level had sunk down quite a bit from Monday & Sunday's vigorous fermentation - averaging around 55-60 CO2 bubbles/minute today.

I was pleasantly surprised to see that within 20 minutes of me adding in the sugar mix, the fermentation activity picked up again - up to 70-75 bubbles/minute!

From what I've read regarding gravity measurement with late sugar additions, the addition (during fermentation) initially raises the OG, but the FG will be lower than initially intended. Given that this is a Tripel, I thought the drier the better. Considering that it's only a 2 cup dextrose addition, I don't anticipate my FG to be that much lower...I just wanted it to be more in the middle range of ABV% for a traditional Tripel, as opposed to the low-end.

As usual, I'll report back.

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Old 10-26-2010, 06:31 PM   #105
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This looks like a great beer, can't wait to try it. I really like that someone converted it to extract and was able to post the results.

Definetly going in the recipe book, and then the fermenter!

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Old 10-26-2010, 06:37 PM   #106
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Hello, I'm the originator of this post and converted it to LME. This is not directed at you Grasslands, but is a response to some of your comments and what you have read so far from others. Don't listen to the whole adding sugar after the malt fermented!

Adding the sugar, candi sugar, beet sugar or whatever you want to call it NEEDS to be added at the beginning phase (at boil) as instructed. This is what the recipe calls for and has a purpose behind it. To others arguments of a dry(er) beer, you can still get down to 1.006 to 1.010 easily, it's all on your mash schedule. And it's possible to get an extract to 1.012, I have done it personally. I have NEVER EVER had issues getting the FG down when adding sugar during the boil. ESPECIALLY with a high attenuation of WLP500!

Now, the reason you add the sugar at the last minute boil phase vs. adding after fermentation is... One, keeps it sanitary. Two and importantly, it allows the sugar to be fermented first!!! key word, fermented first! When adding sugar later, you run into the possibility that you will only ferment 70% or less of the sugar, Opposed to having slightly more malt (for which this style was designed to have a small amount of malt left). Thus affecting the flavor and truly straying away from the style.

Guys, I admire your willingness to experiment and try new things. But don't pass your "Experiments" off like they are the gospel and tried and tested with OUT MERIT!!! Nothing annoys me more when I see someone new say they are going to try this and try their ass hat method with no follow up or anything to back in a diligent and scientific manner. The fact is, the original recipe that I posted is about authentic as you can get. And will get you to the closet style of the original beer, and other TRUE BELGIAN(s), for which I have been in Europe and tasted personally.

With so many new people coming on the scene and what I truly believe is the next revolution/renaissance of our time, we need to direct people down the proper paths. Sorry for ranting, I just want to clear stuff up with people on this post. It's had a lot of hits, and I had a lot of private messages and such.

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Old 10-27-2010, 01:10 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by HuRRiC4Ne View Post
Hello, I'm the originator of this post and converted it to LME. This is not directed at you Grasslands, but is a response to some of your comments and what you have read so far from others. Don't listen to the whole adding sugar after the malt fermented!

Adding the sugar, candi sugar, beet sugar or whatever you want to call it NEEDS to be added at the beginning phase (at boil) as instructed. This is what the recipe calls for and has a purpose behind it. To others arguments of a dry(er) beer, you can still get down to 1.006 to 1.010 easily, it's all on your mash schedule. And it's possible to get an extract to 1.012, I have done it personally. I have NEVER EVER had issues getting the FG down when adding sugar during the boil. ESPECIALLY with a high attenuation of WLP500!

Now, the reason you add the sugar at the last minute boil phase vs. adding after fermentation is... One, keeps it sanitary. Two and importantly, it allows the sugar to be fermented first!!! key word, fermented first! When adding sugar later, you run into the possibility that you will only ferment 70% or less of the sugar, Opposed to having slightly more malt (for which this style was designed to have a small amount of malt left). Thus affecting the flavor and truly straying away from the style.


I couldn't agree more!! No reason to reinvente the wheel.
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Old 10-27-2010, 02:33 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuRRiC4Ne View Post
Hello, I'm the originator of this post and converted it to LME. This is not directed at you Grasslands, but is a response to some of your comments and what you have read so far from others. Don't listen to the whole adding sugar after the malt fermented!

Adding the sugar, candi sugar, beet sugar or whatever you want to call it NEEDS to be added at the beginning phase (at boil) as instructed. This is what the recipe calls for and has a purpose behind it. To others arguments of a dry(er) beer, you can still get down to 1.006 to 1.010 easily, it's all on your mash schedule. And it's possible to get an extract to 1.012, I have done it personally. I have NEVER EVER had issues getting the FG down when adding sugar during the boil. ESPECIALLY with a high attenuation of WLP500!

Now, the reason you add the sugar at the last minute boil phase vs. adding after fermentation is... One, keeps it sanitary. Two and importantly, it allows the sugar to be fermented first!!! key word, fermented first! When adding sugar later, you run into the possibility that you will only ferment 70% or less of the sugar, Opposed to having slightly more malt (for which this style was designed to have a small amount of malt left). Thus affecting the flavor and truly straying away from the style.

Guys, I admire your willingness to experiment and try new things. But don't pass your "Experiments" off like they are the gospel and tried and tested with OUT MERIT!!! Nothing annoys me more when I see someone new say they are going to try this and try their ass hat method with no follow up or anything to back in a diligent and scientific manner. The fact is, the original recipe that I posted is about authentic as you can get. And will get you to the closet style of the original beer, and other TRUE BELGIAN(s), for which I have been in Europe and tasted personally.

With so many new people coming on the scene and what I truly believe is the next revolution/renaissance of our time, we need to direct people down the proper paths. Sorry for ranting, I just want to clear stuff up with people on this post. It's had a lot of hits, and I had a lot of private messages and such.
While I understand that the above post/rant wasn't directed at me (but perhaps indirectly), I think I should at least respond.

No intention of pissin' you off, man. I figured that given my LHBS' oversight (not including the candi sugar) was an admission that I wasn't going along with the initial recipe - and not by choice; I simply couldn't. Aside from adding in .5 lbs of carapils (which I practically add into every recipe I make - clone or of my own design), I would've abided by your instructions to the "t".

By my own admission, I wanted to get the FG up (to the OP's stated requirements in this clone) and the only way I was able to do that was with a post-boil sugar addition - and then report back what I was able to accomplish/taste/etc. I have no means to compare this to the real thing as it is, but I figured that it wasn't necessary for me to start a new thread talking about my specific experiences; I thought it fit better here.

Hurricane, I can see that you take this seriously, but I also see it as a compliment that this thread has received a ton of hits and that you've received a bunch of PMs as a result of your input - I see it also as a compliment that people are taking your recipe and adding in their own touches here and there - not that they're going down the "wrong path" or in jeopardy of influencing others to do so. Perhaps others are like me - looking for a base recipe to try their hand at something and "experiment" - and hopefully learn in the process.

In my unique case, post-boil sugar addition was the only means that I could get to your specific FG, given the absence of candi sugar prior to my boil. After reading/viewing the review on the beer itself, I wanted to have a touch more head retention/mouthfeel, so that's the reason for me adding in a half pound of carapils.

Like I initially said, I didn't intend on recreating the Final Absolution-wheel, I was kind of forced to go in a roundabout way to get to (hopefully) a similar final product. In a longwinded way, I apologize if my posts served as a catalyst for getting you riled up. Never was the intention - I figured the more information out there the better - that's certainly how I've learned as much as I have through HBT.
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Old 10-29-2010, 02:10 AM   #109
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:33 PM   #110
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That's beautiful.
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