Yummy Sound Sour Stout

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Alright gentlemen, I'm in.

After a trip down to Austin, TX from where i live in South Jersey (where sour beers are virtually unattainable), I acquired quite the appetite for sour beers. I was also fortunate enough to visit Jester King's brewery and try some of their bell-cow beers such as Ol' Oi and of course Funk Metal, as well as other short-term selections. I was also smart enough to purchase a bottle of Ol' Oi and Funk Metal, which I still have.

So naturally, now I'm highly interested in brewing my own. First, I'm still fairly new to homebrewing as an overall practice, and have never attempted to make any sort of sour or wild beer. There's tons of info in this thread, on this forum, and on the internet as a whole, but I do still have some questions.

I plan on stepping up the dredges from my Funk Metal bottle to use for this brew to make it somewhat similar to that delicious nectar. I've done some research into souring beers, and it appears there are several methods between sour mashing, kettle souring, etc, but I'm just unsure on how the dredges from an already sour beer come into play. Usually the other methods include both a normal brewing yeast AND some form of souring (lacto, brett, what have you), but would these dredges act as both?

After reading through this thread, it seems like the OP just used the yeast cake from a previous beer, which was stepped up dredges from a different Jester King selection, and nothing else. I could be wrong. Other posters mention doing the dual approach I just mentioned. I'm also a little confused because from what I've read I'm under the impression that those methods usually involve some form of pasteurizing fairly early in the process to stop the souring, which was not mentioned by the OP.

So If I do rely on my Funk Metal dredges, which will not be a cake from another beer, just a straight starter from those dredges, will that be sufficient? Like I said I'm totally new to this practice and I apologize if my question was answered in a previous post.

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I plan on stepping up the dredges from my Funk Metal bottle to use for this brew to make it somewhat similar to that delicious nectar. I've done some research into souring beers, and it appears there are several methods between sour mashing, kettle souring, etc, but I'm just unsure on how the dredges from an already sour beer come into play. Usually the other methods include both a normal brewing yeast AND some form of souring (lacto, brett, what have you), but would these dredges act as both?

I've never used JK dregs, specifically, but there are a couple of ways you could do this that would work best, in my opinion. First, you have a mixed culture in that bottle, so you wouldn't want to kettle sour, since you'll have some yeast fermentation during the souring phase.

Personally I've always co-pitched. I like a lot of sourness in my beers in a relatively short period of time (6-12 months). In doing so, I've used dregs (sometimes built up, sometimes not) alongside a healthy sacc culture. Even when repitching a mixed culture cake, I add a fresh pitch of sacc.

Alternatively, you could primary with the strain of your choice and then pitch your built up dregs into the carboy when fermentation winds down. It could take your beer much longer to sour to your liking, but you get more control over the final product this way, as your sour culture won't just be running wild during primary.
 
Personally I've always co-pitched. I like a lot of sourness in my beers in a relatively short period of time (6-12 months). In doing so, I've used dregs (sometimes built up, sometimes not) alongside a healthy sacc culture. Even when repitching a mixed culture cake, I add a fresh pitch of sacc.

Alternatively, you could primary with the strain of your choice and then pitch your built up dregs into the carboy when fermentation winds down. It could take your beer much longer to sour to your liking, but you get more control over the final product this way, as your sour culture won't just be running wild during primary.

Ok, that makes sense. Since this is my first sour and I don't want to get crazy with it per say, do we think a yeast like wyeast 1056 american ale would be ok? Descriptions of that particular strain describe it as basically a good house yeast that's good for a variety of styles and can tolerate ABV up to like 11%. It also mentions that it's a yeast that will bring out the character of the hops and malt moreso than the yeast and fermentation process itself. That part seems a bit contrary to making a sour stout, but the souring is coming from a different yeast entirely, so I'm assuming that's still ok. I could easily be wrong.
 
Ok, that makes sense. Since this is my first sour and I don't want to get crazy with it per say, do we think a yeast like wyeast 1056 american ale would be ok? Descriptions of that particular strain describe it as basically a good house yeast that's good for a variety of styles and can tolerate ABV up to like 11%. It also mentions that it's a yeast that will bring out the character of the hops and malt moreso than the yeast and fermentation process itself. That part seems a bit contrary to making a sour stout, but the souring is coming from a different yeast entirely, so I'm assuming that's still ok. I could easily be wrong.

Sourness comes from bacteria not yeast. I recommend pitching a Sacc next to the dreges to insure fermentation the batch #2 I did. I took dreges from Buddah's brew and stepped them up for a previous sour. Then used that dreges to ferment and make this sour as well as others. Start off with a small starter (~500mls) then work it up. I do not pasteurize my sours and if they are too sour I can always blend them with another beer to cut it. 1056 will be fine for the primary yeast next to the sour bugs.
 
Thanks a lot for the info, especially from the OP 2 years later. It will likely be a few weeks before I attempt this recipe, but I'll post updates if anybody cares. ;)

Unless I missed something, I'll slowly step up my Funk Metal dregs, proceed with my brew day as described, then pitch both my starter from dregs and my wyeast 1065 together, then cross my fingers for a few months.
 
Ok, that makes sense. Since this is my first sour and I don't want to get crazy with it per say, do we think a yeast like wyeast 1056 american ale would be ok? Descriptions of that particular strain describe it as basically a good house yeast that's good for a variety of styles and can tolerate ABV up to like 11%. It also mentions that it's a yeast that will bring out the character of the hops and malt moreso than the yeast and fermentation process itself. That part seems a bit contrary to making a sour stout, but the souring is coming from a different yeast entirely, so I'm assuming that's still ok. I could easily be wrong.
I think that's a great plan. 1056 works well in tandem with mixed cultures. The thing to remember when working with brett and bugs is that nearly none of the character from your primary yeast will be left when it's all done, though they may transform esthers and phenols into other interesting flavors.

Looking forward to hearing how this comes out for you. I still have this on my list to brew, probably using a cake that's working on a sour red right now.
 
In the absence of access to the Jester King dregs, would the Wyeast 3278 Lambic Blend be a potential good substitute? Or would the Roselare be a better fit?...or something else?
 
Do you have access to other commercial sours? Likely have better luck with dregs than commercial cultures
 
In the absence of access to the Jester King dregs, would the Wyeast 3278 Lambic Blend be a potential good substitute? Or would the Roselare be a better fit?...or something else?
Have access to Crooked Stave? Those dregs are voracious. You could pitch them alongside your Lambic Blend for maximum funk.
 
Have access to Crooked Stave? Those dregs are voracious. You could pitch them alongside your Lambic Blend for maximum funk.

I do have a bottle of Mad Meg from Jester King. I love Crooked Stave, but can't get it locally. May have to plan to trip to Denver soon!

I like your suggestion though, I may try building a starter and stepping up the Mad Meg dregs...then adding some Lambic as well.
 
Well brew day has finally arrived. I've had my Funk Metal dregs stepping up for a few days, and looks like there's a good amount of reproduction visible in the bottom of the flask. Just mashed in, hit my numbers right on. The only thing I'm worried about in the current moment is, should I throw it into a bucket fermentor for like a day or so? It's a pretty big beer, and I'm now having terrible visions of my carboy blasting off and losing some of those precious bugs through a blow off tube, or worse out the top of my carboy haha. I'm thinking if I do that and then put it in a glass carboy where it will rest for 8 months or whatever I can avoid a lot of that krausen blast off bull****. Any thoughts?
 
That is just minor loss you so not have to worry about. You can throw in a anti foamer to prevent it. Forgot what it is called but every homebrew store should carry it. I ferment in buckets and with this beer i never had a blow off (decent head space). If you are going to go the bucket route just leave it there until its done. I do not secondary my beers. I let my sours sit on the cake until i feel like its done. More you move the beer, the more oxygen it can get and more beer you loose.
 
Thanks for all your help Disturbd, I love how most of the OP of the recipes on these forums are still around to help you years after the original post. :rockin:

FWIW I just siphoned it into a 6gall glass carboy, since I ended up with about 5.5 gallons or possibly more; I ran out of time on brewday. Not too unhappy about it though, I'll end up with a few more of these hopefully delicious brews in a few months, albeit slightly more diluted. Whatever, they'll be just as sour.

Hooked it up to a blow off tube on brew day, which was about 5 days ago, and the thing was going nuts to the point that I was only able to switch to a normal airlock this morning. It's a good thing, I suppose. I also saved the last little bit of my dreg starter and threw it in a mason jar with some wort in an effort to save the precious little buggers from across the country. Went back a few days later and the cap was bulging a little out the top, opened it and it almost foamed over. I didn't really think I needed to go the whole flask and airlock route since it was only a little bit of dregs that I'd thrown in there and I wasn't expecting a quick turnaround, but man was I wrong. Looks like I have a nice healthy bunch for any future efforts. The carboy has a huge cake on the bottom already, but since you're saying you don't rerack this (or any) beer, I'm not going to worry about it.
 
Gnarly set up. Still using similar bugs or other cakes of various sours and such?

I used a newer Jester King yeast and some of the original dreges. This batch is different because the first one was when JK had english ale + bugs. This one is a Saison yeast (probably 3711) and bugs. The barrel will add quite a bit once it sits in there for a while.

I got one more barrel I need to fill up in the next couple of months.
 
Sweet, didn't figure you'd be still rolling with the same stuff years later, but that's pretty cool. If you're not set on putting a sour in there I've been practically addicted to Scotch ales recently, and there's a great recipe for one here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=153797 with plenty of posts about minor changes throughout there. Sounds like it would be kickass in a barrel.

Just got my hands on a Sang Rouge from Cascade brewing today and got to harvesting the dregs, boy was the beer itself amazing. Think it would be cool to throw some in my batch? If so, should I wait a bit?
 
Always considered brewing this and I think it's finally time. I have a 18month old solara of a Wheat/2-row i'm thinking ill empty out and refill with something new, possibly this.

I was wondering if people thought this would work out ok as a "normal" stout as well. I've been on vacation and therefor the pipeline is dry, so I was thinking of doing a 10gal batch and splitting it during the boil for 5 to sour and 5 for normal. Looking at this grain bill though, I don't think I'll be able to fit 10 gals into my 10 gal tun...
 
Always considered brewing this and I think it's finally time. I have a 18month old solara of a Wheat/2-row i'm thinking ill empty out and refill with something new, possibly this.

I was wondering if people thought this would work out ok as a "normal" stout as well. I've been on vacation and therefor the pipeline is dry, so I was thinking of doing a 10gal batch and splitting it during the boil for 5 to sour and 5 for normal. Looking at this grain bill though, I don't think I'll be able to fit 10 gals into my 10 gal tun...

I wanted to propagate the 1056 I pitched alongside a couple different dregs, so I saved some yeast from the starter and some of the plain stout wort in a mason jar. Tasted it a while later and it is seriously tasty. Just know that it is not necessarily on the roasty/toasty side since it features only a half pound each of chocolate malt and roasted barley compared to a full pound each of honey malt and special B. No black patent or carafa III either, which is fine by me.

I also think it would make an amazing base for a flavored stout like chocolate, coffee, vanilla, raspberry, etc, but should also be great as a plain old stout. I like that it doesn't feature an 'imperial' abv, but also isn't as low as, say, guinness. Should finish somewhere around 7-8% depending on how much you end up with and efficiency and such.
 
Ya, I'm thinking I may want to try it, and just scale it to a size I can fit in my tun. It'll be a minimal investment of grains if it doesn't work out. Thanks for the reply!
 
I've been looking at this recipe for several months, and it's finally firmly in my queue. The plan is to brew 7 or 8 gallons (which will be tight in my kettle), and ferment a couple of gallons clean with Belgian yeast, for drinking while I'm waiting for this to finish. I have a cake from a sour red that should be nice and hungry by brew day (still need to transfer that beer to bottles and/or secondary with cherries).

Has anyone brewed this with English yeast vs. saison yeast? I have a wild yeast that I really like for saisons, but it's been super attenuative lately, so I'm thinking about something gentler to accompany my sour mix. With any luck, I can bottle this to drink next winter.
 
I believe the first batch was with english ale with sour mix. It was before Jester King went full "sour". They used english ale with lacot/sour mix. English should work with it so you have some sweetness to it.

I'm going to remove Batch #3 form the barrel today. That one should be great.
 
How would I port this recipe over to a partial mash setup? I'm not et equipped for full grain. Sounds like a great brew. Any help greatly appreciated.
 
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