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Old 01-26-2011, 10:01 PM   #11
JumboBlimpJumbo
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I made this with an extra pound of pilsener and I used WLP 550 Belgian Ale yeast with no starter. I also only did a 60 minute boil and mash, and used 2 oz of Saaz 3.0% because that's what I had - only boiled for 60 minutes, not FWH. OG - 1.068, FG - 1.014. It's only been in the bottle 8 days but it is already an awesome beer. This is probably one of the best beers I have made, and it's definitely better than a tripel I made a few months back. I plan on entering it into my local homebrew club dubbel competition next month.

Thanks for the recipe!

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Old 01-26-2011, 11:22 PM   #12
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I'm glad to hear that it turned out so well for you. This is a recipe that I am very pleased with. I'm planning on brewing the second batch this summer as part of my "Year of Belgians" project (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/year-belgians-217289/). I'm thinking about making a couple of minor tweaks. I'd like it to be just a touch less sweet. So, should I lower the mash temperature to 148? Or should I remove a few ounces of Caramunich and/or Special B?

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On Deck: American IPA, Märzen
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In Bottles: Prime Abbey Singel, Vespers Abbey Dubbel, Terce Abbey Tripel, Compline Abbey Quad, Dragon's Tail Barleywine, Boyne Mead

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Old 01-27-2011, 12:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chemnitz View Post
I'd like it to be just a touch less sweet. So, should I lower the mash temperature to 148? Or should I remove a few ounces of Caramunich and/or Special B?
I'm no expert but I've been reading quite a bit lately so I'll give you a quote from John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff from Brewing Classic Styles (pg 236)

Keys to Brewing Belgian Dubbel:

"Good fermentation temperature control also produces the right kind of fruit esters for this style. The best results come from pitching the yeast at a lower temperature, in this case 64 F, and then letting the temperature rise slowly through the course of fermentation. It is important to let the temperature increase (or to increase it through heating) throughout fermentation to ensure good attenuation and a dry enough finish."

Then under Fermentation and Conditioning it says "Pitch yeast at 64 F and let the temperature slowly rise to 70 F over the course of 1 week."

Reading through Brew Like A Monk by Stan Hieronymus, the rising temperature and high attenuation also seem to be a reoccurring theme for all the Trappist breweries. Specifically regarding Chimay Red, the yeast is pitched at 68 F and rises to 81 to 82 F over the course of 4 days (pg 48). It has an 88% apparent attenuation, so you would need to get your final gravity down to about 1.008 if you keep your starting gravity at 1.065 (it says that Chimay red has a starting gravity of 1.061 so that would have a final gravity of about 1.007). It doesn't say anything about their mash temperatures, but most of the mash schedules it provides in the book are multiple step mashes. I would think lowering it a few degrees would do the trick though.
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Old 03-17-2011, 03:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chemnitz View Post
I'm glad to hear that it turned out so well for you. This is a recipe that I am very pleased with. I'm planning on brewing the second batch this summer as part of my "Year of Belgians" project (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/year-belgians-217289/). I'm thinking about making a couple of minor tweaks. I'd like it to be just a touch less sweet. So, should I lower the mash temperature to 148? Or should I remove a few ounces of Caramunich and/or Special B?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JumboBlimpJumbo View Post
I'm no expert but I've been reading quite a bit lately so I'll give you a quote from John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff from Brewing Classic Styles (pg 236)

Keys to Brewing Belgian Dubbel:

"Good fermentation temperature control also produces the right kind of fruit esters for this style. The best results come from pitching the yeast at a lower temperature, in this case 64 F, and then letting the temperature rise slowly through the course of fermentation. It is important to let the temperature increase (or to increase it through heating) throughout fermentation to ensure good attenuation and a dry enough finish."

Then under Fermentation and Conditioning it says "Pitch yeast at 64 F and let the temperature slowly rise to 70 F over the course of 1 week."

Reading through Brew Like A Monk by Stan Hieronymus, the rising temperature and high attenuation also seem to be a reoccurring theme for all the Trappist breweries. Specifically regarding Chimay Red, the yeast is pitched at 68 F and rises to 81 to 82 F over the course of 4 days (pg 48). It has an 88% apparent attenuation, so you would need to get your final gravity down to about 1.008 if you keep your starting gravity at 1.065 (it says that Chimay red has a starting gravity of 1.061 so that would have a final gravity of about 1.007). It doesn't say anything about their mash temperatures, but most of the mash schedules it provides in the book are multiple step mashes. I would think lowering it a few degrees would do the trick though.
I agree with the Okie
...lower mash temp and a slow ramping of temp over the course of fermentation will help. My Golden Strong brewed with 550 showed active signs of fermentation from the blowoff (I know Revvy, but I brew in buckets so I can't watch ) for 11-12 days!!!

There is another possible culprit though. As I read through the original Candi Syrup thread by SnickASaurusRex and the spinoff by Nateo, it seems that the Maillard reactions that create the syrup also convert many of the fermentable sugars to non-fermentables. I have a post up in Nateo's thread hoping to get some feedback on how to balance the flavors we want to get from this syrup with the desired fermentability and dry finish. I love the DIY mentality and would rather not pay $6-8 a pound for DarkCandi stuff, so I am wondering if blending the darker syrup with some of the lighter versions (assuming the lighter is more fermentable/ less converted than the darker) would help or even adding plain sugar to the boil with the homemade syrup to get both the flavor and dryness.

I will keep this thread updated on anything I find and I'd love to hear if anyone has attempted this recipe with some modifications to decrease sweetness and get the dry digestable finish we want.

Happy Brewing
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"I cant handle that buddy.. it tastes like Moose Piss", (IPA) - side note.. ive never had moose piss, but im sure it doesnt taste like IPA or I would have a moose.
Bottled: Grizzly Saison, Grizzly Brett, Session Pale, Colorado Cream Ale, Cranberry Apfelwein
Primary: -37* Blue Balls Baltic Porter, Bad Dog Brown, Bohemian Pilsner
Secondary: Rarely!!!
Future: Cognitive Dissonance Cascadian Dark Ale
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Old 03-19-2011, 02:44 AM   #15
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I just got through brewing this, though I added .5 oz of Tettnanger at 30 minutes and .25 oz of Nelson Sauvin I had layin around at flame out. I also added .5 lb of table sugar to compensate for the sugars that were converted to unfermentables in SnickASaurusRex's sugar #5...but man was that syrup unreal!!! I am pretty proud of my first attempt at any kind of candy making whatsoever!

The difference between the hydrometer sample pre sugars and post sugars is pretty significant as well. The color is considerably darker after adding 1.5 lbs of the Candi Syrup and the hydro readings were 1059 pre sugar and 1075 post sugar.

I propogated washed WLP550 in a 1500 ml starter (finally found a size that gets max growth without overflowing yeastie beasties...not sure what yeast Revvy's using, but I ALWAYS get a huge Krausen on my starters!!!), chilled, decanted and then saved about 500ml from the second runnings, boiled, chilled and added to the yeast to get 'em fired up and ready to eat some sugar, excrete some ethanol, and fart some CO2

I just got my keggle as well so this was the first full boil I have been able to do. I've been doing split boils in a 5gal and a 3gal kettle on my stove...needless to say the 15gal capacity was really nice when I have been watching for boil overs like a hawk for months!!!

All in all this brew went extremely well and I can't wait to sample this beer. Each of my last 6 or 7 brews have been getting successively better with the last two Belgians the best yet. Here's hoping this Dubbel tops 'em all!!

Thank you for the recipe chemnitz

Update: Got a little scare when I got home from hiking today...apparently I gathered closer to 6gal than the 5.5 I thought, limiting the headspace in a vigorous fermentation. As soon as I got home I checked on my brews I found a clogged blowoff and a jar full of braun hefe in StarSan!!! Fortunately it blew the seal on the lid rather than blowing the lid OFF...that would have been one nasty fermentation fridge

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"I cant handle that buddy.. it tastes like Moose Piss", (IPA) - side note.. ive never had moose piss, but im sure it doesnt taste like IPA or I would have a moose.
Bottled: Grizzly Saison, Grizzly Brett, Session Pale, Colorado Cream Ale, Cranberry Apfelwein
Primary: -37* Blue Balls Baltic Porter, Bad Dog Brown, Bohemian Pilsner
Secondary: Rarely!!!
Future: Cognitive Dissonance Cascadian Dark Ale
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Old 04-10-2011, 11:29 PM   #16
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Just took a sample. Down to 1013 from 1075, resulting in an 8.11% ABV and very tasty dubbel! I'm leaving this for one more week for a total of 4, then will bottle next weekend. The hydro sample tastes amazing though! Dark, rich, fruity, spicy, a little alcohol warmth. Can't wait for this to be carbed and aged

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Originally Posted by Mirilis View Post
"I cant handle that buddy.. it tastes like Moose Piss", (IPA) - side note.. ive never had moose piss, but im sure it doesnt taste like IPA or I would have a moose.
Bottled: Grizzly Saison, Grizzly Brett, Session Pale, Colorado Cream Ale, Cranberry Apfelwein
Primary: -37* Blue Balls Baltic Porter, Bad Dog Brown, Bohemian Pilsner
Secondary: Rarely!!!
Future: Cognitive Dissonance Cascadian Dark Ale
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Old 04-15-2011, 10:27 PM   #17
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Well, I just drank my third-to-last bottle of the original batch (now 14 months old), and it finally hit the wall. While it was tasty at 12 months, now it has lost its aroma entirely and is pretty bland. That said, I've slotted this in to brew again sometime this summer, and I can't wait for more.

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"Das Wort hat, ... als ich Wittenbergisch Bier mit meinem Philipp und Amsdorf getrunken hab, also viel getan..." - Martin Luther

On Deck: American IPA, Märzen
Fermenting: None
In Bottles: Prime Abbey Singel, Vespers Abbey Dubbel, Terce Abbey Tripel, Compline Abbey Quad, Dragon's Tail Barleywine, Boyne Mead

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Old 04-15-2011, 11:28 PM   #18
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Just bottled mine today...hydro samples tasted promising

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirilis View Post
"I cant handle that buddy.. it tastes like Moose Piss", (IPA) - side note.. ive never had moose piss, but im sure it doesnt taste like IPA or I would have a moose.
Bottled: Grizzly Saison, Grizzly Brett, Session Pale, Colorado Cream Ale, Cranberry Apfelwein
Primary: -37* Blue Balls Baltic Porter, Bad Dog Brown, Bohemian Pilsner
Secondary: Rarely!!!
Future: Cognitive Dissonance Cascadian Dark Ale
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Old 04-30-2011, 08:30 PM   #19
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I'll be trying this recipe in the next few weeks. My LHBS doesn't have Belgian pilsner malts, but does have a Belgian pale malt, Marris Otter, or a pilsner malt of which I don't know the origin. What would you guys recommend as a substitute for the belgian pilsner malt? They have MANY other selections, but I don't have enough experience with the different malts to know how each one will effect my final product.

This will be my intro to AG. So hopefully I won't screw it up.

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Old 05-01-2011, 11:42 PM   #20
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I'll be trying this recipe in the next few weeks. My LHBS doesn't have Belgian pilsner malts, but does have a Belgian pale malt, Marris Otter, or a pilsner malt of which I don't know the origin. What would you guys recommend as a substitute for the belgian pilsner malt? They have MANY other selections, but I don't have enough experience with the different malts to know how each one will effect my final product.

This will be my intro to AG. So hopefully I won't screw it up.
I would not use the Marris Otter--it has the wrong flavor profile. If the pilsner is continental (e.g. German), I would use that. Otherwise, go with the Belgian pale malt.
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"Das Wort hat, ... als ich Wittenbergisch Bier mit meinem Philipp und Amsdorf getrunken hab, also viel getan..." - Martin Luther

On Deck: American IPA, Märzen
Fermenting: None
In Bottles: Prime Abbey Singel, Vespers Abbey Dubbel, Terce Abbey Tripel, Compline Abbey Quad, Dragon's Tail Barleywine, Boyne Mead

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