Belgian Tripel Karmeliet Clone

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GordonT

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2010
Messages
156
Reaction score
17
Location
Victoria
Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
Wyeast 1214
Yeast Starter
none
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter
none
Batch Size (Gallons)
5.5
Original Gravity
1070
Final Gravity
?
Boiling Time (Minutes)
90
IBU
6
Color
Pale gold
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
7
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
7
Tasting Notes
not finished fermenting yet
This is the third time around for this beer. I've adjusted the recipe slightly and changed mash temps and times slightly.

12 lbs lager malt
2 lbs wheat
1 lb oats
1 lb bottle of clear white syrup in boil

1 oz Hallertau in boil
.25 oz Hallertau at 15
.5 oz licorice root at 15
1.5 oz fresh orange peel at 5
.35 oz crushed corinader seed at end of boil

Mashed at 148 for 45 minutes and then raised to 160 for sparge.

Boiled for 90 minutes with 1 oz Hallertau. All other additions as indicated.

I usually use Ardennes yeast with this but am trying Wyeast 1214 fermented at a high temperature.

The last time I made this the licorice root was very subdued until the beer had aged for about a month and a half. It then came out as a great woody/licorice background flavour. The orange was also a bit too subdued so I've added an additional .5 oz of fresh Jaffa orange peel.

This is just into primary. I'll update as it progresses.

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Looking forward to your thoughts on this.

This has been in a keg for 3 days now and I'm having a hard time staying away from it. Its incredible. The orange shows up as a background flavour but adds a brightness to the beer. The coriander and spice from the yeast have combined to create the typical Tripel flavour profile.
The licorice is not very present yet. Last time it took over a month before it started to become apparent.
This is the best version so far and will be my standard 'other' Tripel. La Chouffe is my primary Tripel.
 
Hello,

Looking to try your recipe. Just a quick question. My local home brew supplies has 2 kinds of hallertau hops
Hallertauer Hersbrucker Alpha Acid 3.0%
Hallertauer Mittelfruh Alpha Acid 4.3%

Which one of the two if any did you use?
BTW how did it turned out?
Thanks
 
Hello,

Looking to try your recipe. Just a quick question. My local home brew supplies has 2 kinds of hallertau hops
Hallertauer Hersbrucker Alpha Acid 3.0%
Hallertauer Mittelfruh Alpha Acid 4.3%

Which one of the two if any did you use?
BTW how did it turned out?
Thanks

My Hallertau does not have a designation but the AA is about 4.5 so it is probably the latter choice. The beer turned out to be incredible. I have remade this recipe several times because it is so popular I keep running out. This is now my standard Tripel recipe.
 
By the way can you tell me a little more about the fermentation?
How long in the primary vessel? What temp?
Did you transfer to a secondary vessel?
Do you bottle it or keg it?
Thanks
 
By the way can you tell me a little more about the fermentation?
How long in the primary vessel? What temp?
Did you transfer to a secondary vessel?
Do you bottle it or keg it?
Thanks

I allowed the yeast to start overnight and then put the carboy in my warmest room with a brew belt heater on it and a towel around it to hold the heat. It probably got to mid-70s as I live in a temperate climate. I left it there until airlock activity has ceased.
Secondary was only until the beer had cleared. Some people prefer longer but this beer is very drinkable young. I then kegged it, force carbonated and was sharing it around with a couple of weeks.
 
I've been searching for a beer to brew and this took the cake; I pulled the trigger on Sunday. Converted the recipe to a partial. I followed the recipe (for the most part) but swapped out a few things: the oats for flaked wheat and exchanged the licorice for black peppercorn. I used two packets of the 1214. A good fermentation started about 12 hours later. I'll be sure to re-post with photos and tasting notes.

Thanks GordonT!
 
I've been searching for a beer to brew and this took the cake; I pulled the trigger on Sunday. Converted the recipe to a partial. I followed the recipe (for the most part) but swapped out a few things: the oats for flaked wheat and exchanged the licorice for black peppercorn. I used two packets of the 1214. A good fermentation started about 12 hours later. I'll be sure to re-post with photos and tasting notes.

Thanks GordonT!

You're welcome sir. I hope the beer went well. Send an update to let us know, and when the beer is finished, hoist one for me... or send one in the mail :)
 
I'll be making this soon. just a couple of questions:

1) We do not have licorice root ( AFAIK) here, I searched for substitute, can I use anise seeds?
2) Is the wheat malted or not?
 
I'll be making this soon. just a couple of questions:

1) We do not have licorice root ( AFAIK) here, I searched for substitute, can I use anise seeds?
2) Is the wheat malted or not?

Anise is ok as a substitute. I have even used star anise to good effect. I did use malted wheat as I do not have the set up to handle unmalted (or the desire). Good luck with it.

If you would like to try licorice you can look in your local Chinatown, or if you have a good herb store close try them. But look for fresh, still supple licorice.
 
I noticed it has only 6 IBU. I had Tripel Karmeliet some time ago and I remember that I enjoyed it but I cannot remember the bitterness. Isn't 6 IBU is too low?
 
I am fairly new to brewing, 5 extract batches in and I am ready to switch to all grain. My favorite beer is Triple Karmilite so I am going to use your recipe as my first all grain this weekend. I was just curious if you had any advice or anything you may have changed since you posted the recipe? Also how is the color? I have done an extract "white ale" that came out dark brown and I was shooting for a golden color. I was told this is because of the malt extract. So I guess my question is does this beer have the same color as Triple Karmilite? Color is not everything but I really want to fine tune my brewing to be able to get the colors I am shooting for. Thanks for any advice you have and for posting the recipe.
 
I noticed it has only 6 IBU. I had Tripel Karmeliet some time ago and I remember that I enjoyed it but I cannot remember the bitterness. Isn't 6 IBU is too low?

I tasted this beer again last night as a reminder. This is a beer with low bitterness. In side by side tastings mine is very close. Hop usage is dependent on your setup. My kettle always gets a solid rolling boil for at least 1.5 hours so I have good hop usage.

The area I miss in this beer is its floral hop/spice taste. Close but not exact yet.
 
I am fairly new to brewing, 5 extract batches in and I am ready to switch to all grain. My favorite beer is Triple Karmilite so I am going to use your recipe as my first all grain this weekend. I was just curious if you had any advice or anything you may have changed since you posted the recipe? Also how is the color? I have done an extract "white ale" that came out dark brown and I was shooting for a golden color. I was told this is because of the malt extract. So I guess my question is does this beer have the same color as Triple Karmilite? Color is not everything but I really want to fine tune my brewing to be able to get the colors I am shooting for. Thanks for any advice you have and for posting the recipe.

The color is very close. A nice golden Belgian ale. My grain bill does not include any dark malts so your beer should turn out well. Not white but a nice golden color.

I am going to rebrew this shortly. After a tasting of the original last night the only thing I will experiment with is the amount of spice in the finish. Karmeliete definitely has a very floral coriander flavour.

Actually there is one other thing I am going to change next time around. I got a great tip of sugar and how to best use it to ensure a low FG. Don't add the sugar/syrup during the boil. Wait until the head begins to drop a bit during primary and then add. Reasoning on this is that yeast eats the easy to digest sugars first and complex sugar later. Forcing it to eat the complex sugars during the first part of primary will ensure your FG is lower, making the beer more 'digestible' :)
 
By the way can you tell me a little more about the fermentation?
How long in the primary vessel? What temp?
Did you transfer to a secondary vessel?
Do you bottle it or keg it?
Thanks

Primary was over in 4 days but I left it on the yeast for a week. It cleared in secondary in just a few days but I left it for another week. I have just started bottling a bit of every batch I brew, just to taste the difference and so I can give some to friends. I have always kegged this particular brew.

I have been experimenting with higher temperatures but in future will keep to a more moderate range. I believe the best fermentation temperature is to start cool (mid 60s) and gradually let it rise to low to mid 70s. In past I have allowed this beer to get to high 70s but I don't think that is necessary to get the flavour profile we're after.
 
The color is very close. A nice golden Belgian ale. My grain bill does not include any dark malts so your beer should turn out well. Not white but a nice golden color.

I am going to rebrew this shortly. After a tasting of the original last night the only thing I will experiment with is the amount of spice in the finish. Karmeliete definitely has a very floral coriander flavour.

Actually there is one other thing I am going to change next time around. I got a great tip of sugar and how to best use it to ensure a low FG. Don't add the sugar/syrup during the boil. Wait until the head begins to drop a bit during primary and then add. Reasoning on this is that yeast eats the easy to digest sugars first and complex sugar later. Forcing it to eat the complex sugars during the first part of primary will ensure your FG is lower, making the beer more 'digestible' :)
Hey GordonT,
Thanks again for the great post and recipe, I am very excited. It was my first all grain and my OG was 1.077 so I think it started out ok. My question is about the fermentation. It has been in the primary for 10 days now and the their is still a very healthy (not so active) layer of kraesen (however it is spelled) on top. I didnt move it to the secondary because I normally don't have this much ontop for this long. It normally subsides and pushes back to the walls and i guess down to the trub. Is this something you normally see? And is this a difference with all grain brewing vs extract as well? I know patience is key with brewing and I am leaving it be I just want to make sure it is normal. I was hoping to be watching it in the glass carbon now. : ). Thanks again.
 
You can safely leave it in the primary until bottling. When i did that recipe it was ready to bottle in 3 weeks.

I'll be doing it again in the next 2 weeks.
 
You can safely leave it in the primary until bottling. When i did that recipe it was ready to bottle in 3 weeks.

I'll be doing it again in the next 2 weeks.
Yes, thank you for the response. I have been reading these posts for sometime about secondary vs extended primary. I understand everyone says you can just leave it in the primary but if I want to move it to the secondary can I do so before the kraesen levels back out into the wort. Or do I have to wait?
 
Hey GordonT,
Thanks again for the great post and recipe, I am very excited. It was my first all grain and my OG was 1.077 so I think it started out ok. My question is about the fermentation. It has been in the primary for 10 days now and the their is still a very healthy (not so active) layer of kraesen (however it is spelled) on top. I didnt move it to the secondary because I normally don't have this much ontop for this long. It normally subsides and pushes back to the walls and i guess down to the trub. Is this something you normally see? And is this a difference with all grain brewing vs extract as well? I know patience is key with brewing and I am leaving it be I just want to make sure it is normal. I was hoping to be watching it in the glass carbon now. : ). Thanks again.

Krausen :) For a beer of this strength it is a good idea to either do a yeast starter or to use yeast from a previous ferment. Throwing a single yeast package in may not give you enough yeast to have a vigorous ferment that ends in the usual 3 - 5 days. Some people throw in 2 packages but that is expensive. I've taken to either making a starter or doing my first brew in the 1050 - 1055 range and putting the next stronger beer onto that nicely plentiful yeast. Good luck
 
SnowBird said:
Thanks Akavango! Is that Cork Ireland you are from? My great grandfather was born there.

I'm Belgian expat living in Cork. Good luck with you beer.
 
Actually there is one other thing I am going to change next time around. I got a great tip of sugar and how to best use it to ensure a low FG. Don't add the sugar/syrup during the boil. Wait until the head begins to drop a bit during primary and then add. Reasoning on this is that yeast eats the easy to digest sugars first and complex sugar later. Forcing it to eat the complex sugars during the first part of primary will ensure your FG is lower, making the beer more 'digestible' :)

Hi!

I am going to give this one a shot on Saturday, but I had a question regarding the sugar. You state that you "wait until the head begins to drop a bit during primary and then add."

I have a few questions about that....

I am using plastic for my primary so I cannot see inside the bucket very well. Any guestimates on time/intensity of bubbling, etc,. i should be looking for before adding the sugar to the primary?

Did you warm the syrup or just put it in at room temp? Did you stir it in or just dump and seal?

Thanks!
 
Actually there is one other thing I am going to change next time around. I got a great tip of sugar and how to best use it to ensure a low FG. Don't add the sugar/syrup during the boil. Wait until the head begins to drop a bit during primary and then add. Reasoning on this is that yeast eats the easy to digest sugars first and complex sugar later. Forcing it to eat the complex sugars during the first part of primary will ensure your FG is lower, making the beer more 'digestible' :)

Gordon,
Have you put this tip into practice? If so how did it turn out?
By doing it this way, you OG would not be representative, how would you go about measuring the ABV?
 
Hi!

I am going to give this one a shot on Saturday, but I had a question regarding the sugar. You state that you "wait until the head begins to drop a bit during primary and then add."

I have a few questions about that....

I am using plastic for my primary so I cannot see inside the bucket very well. Any guestimates on time/intensity of bubbling, etc,. i should be looking for before adding the sugar to the primary?

Did you warm the syrup or just put it in at room temp? Did you stir it in or just dump and seal?

Thanks!

I use a beer thief to pull some of the beer out of the primary and put it in a pan. You only need enough to cover the sugar plus an inch or two. I mix it in well and then heat it to a simmer for 10 minutes, long enough to kill any bugs that might be in it.

Taking the top off your plastic pail in the first few days should not be a problem as long as its clean. THere is so much CO2 being pushed out the chances of anything falling in are very small. Eye ball it every day for the first 3 or 4 days and as soon as you see any lessening of activity or drop of the head, that's when the sugar goes in.

The airlock is still going to be pretty active. If you think you can see a lessening of activity by watching it I suppose you could use that as your check point.

Hope that's clear and helpful.

Gord
 
I use a beer thief to pull some of the beer out of the primary and put it in a pan. You only need enough to cover the sugar plus an inch or two. I mix it in well and then heat it to a simmer for 10 minutes, long enough to kill any bugs that might be in it.

Taking the top off your plastic pail in the first few days should not be a problem as long as its clean. THere is so much CO2 being pushed out the chances of anything falling in are very small. Eye ball it every day for the first 3 or 4 days and as soon as you see any lessening of activity or drop of the head, that's when the sugar goes in.

The airlock is still going to be pretty active. If you think you can see a lessening of activity by watching it I suppose you could use that as your check point.

Hope that's clear and helpful.

Gord

Sounds good, thanks for the advice.

So what sort of ABV bump have you seen by doing it this way?
 
Sounds good, thanks for the advice.

So what sort of ABV bump have you seen by doing it this way?

I have only done this once and it was just one factor that I've changed so my lower FG's can't be pinned to one source. I had the problem of too high FG's on my Belgians, which should generally be drier that English, Scottish and Amercan Ales. T solve this problem I have been using a suite of new actions.

Always do a yeast starter, or make the first batch a sub 1050 beer.

Mash low varying the heat through the mash. 146 - 152 and back again over an hour.

Add any sugar or syrup to primary after the head begins to fall.

Don't be in a rush to end the ferment. Let it sit in primary, or secondary until all activity ceases.

Using these techniques I have managed to move my FG's down roughly 5 - 10 points.
 
I have only done this once and it was just one factor that I've changed so my lower FG's can't be pinned to one source. I had the problem of too high FG's on my Belgians, which should generally be drier that English, Scottish and Amercan Ales. T solve this problem I have been using a suite of new actions.

Always do a yeast starter, or make the first batch a sub 1050 beer.

Mash low varying the heat through the mash. 146 - 152 and back again over an hour.

Add any sugar or syrup to primary after the head begins to fall.

Don't be in a rush to end the ferment. Let it sit in primary, or secondary until all activity ceases.

Using these techniques I have managed to move my FG's down roughly 5 - 10 points.

Gordon, I've got your recipe in the Primary as we speak. I added the Candi Syrup to the Primary as you suggested after the first Krausen. (That's the right term right?) Glad I kept the blow off tube on because a few days after that she was picking up again. Today is day 9 in the Primary and still bubbling every 2 seconds or so. Can't wait to try this one out.

Thanks for the recipe.
 
Gordon, I've got your recipe in the Primary as we speak. I added the Candi Syrup to the Primary as you suggested after the first Krausen. (That's the right term right?) Glad I kept the blow off tube on because a few days after that she was picking up again. Today is day 9 in the Primary and still bubbling every 2 seconds or so. Can't wait to try this one out.

Thanks for the recipe.

Good luck with it. 9 days seems a bit long. Hope you were careful with the sugar addition.

This is being brewed again here tomorrow, then the Oaked Arrogant Bastard is up.
 
I'm looking forward to brewing this soon, one question I have is the 12lb lager malt, would that be like belgian pilsner malt or 2-row?
 
I'm looking forward to brewing this soon, one question I have is the 12lb lager malt, would that be like belgian pilsner malt or 2-row?

I don't have access to Belgian Pilsner. If you do that is first choice for use. I use a Canadian Pils malt and it does the job nicely enough. The Belgians appear to be quite practical about their ingredient choices, they use what's readily available and what is cost efficient.

Being home brewers we may want to spend a little extra to make sure our beer is the best possible but I don't think its essential to making an enjoyable beer.
 
So I am finally getting back around to post on how mine turned out.

I kept in the Primary (6.5gal bucket) for 7 days then moved it to a secondary for 7 more days, then to the keg. I got about a 8.7%ABV from it. It definitely needed a diacetyl rest because there were some harsh flavors on the back-end of the beer. I left it in the keg for a bout a month and tapped into it on Superbowl Sunday at my party. The worst of the hashness was gone and it proved to be a really smooth beer. I blew through all 5 gallons at that party.

I am doing it again, with a number of changes, and I am going to let this one bottle condition and rest for at least 3 months before tapping into it.

Thanks for the recipe and the input on how it brew it; it has really helped me out.
 
So I am finally getting back around to post on how mine turned out.

I kept in the Primary (6.5gal bucket) for 7 days then moved it to a secondary for 7 more days, then to the keg. I got about a 8.7%ABV from it. It definitely needed a diacetyl rest because there were some harsh flavors on the back-end of the beer. I left it in the keg for a bout a month and tapped into it on Superbowl Sunday at my party. The worst of the hashness was gone and it proved to be a really smooth beer. I blew through all 5 gallons at that party.

I am doing it again, with a number of changes, and I am going to let this one bottle condition and rest for at least 3 months before tapping into it.

Thanks for the recipe and the input on how it brew it; it has really helped me out.

10 gallons next time :) That must have been a great party...
 

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