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-   -   "Piwo Kielich" -- Grätzer/Grodziskie style ale (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/piwo-kielich-graetzer-grodziskie-style-ale-192159/)

ReverseApacheMaster 08-22-2010 06:35 PM

"Piwo Kielich" -- Grätzer/Grodziskie style ale
 
I first got hip to this idea in this thread and after doing a lot of research (as much as I could find, which isn't much) I finally drafted a recipe and gave it a whirl. I noticed there isn't a proper recipe listed here, so I'm staking claim to the first recipe of this kind on HBT! :tank:

A lot of recipes out there are "cheaters versions" that use part wheat and part rauchmalt to get a smokey wheat flavor. I wanted to try to be as authentic as possible, so I went straight home-smoked wheat malt. I'll detail the rather simple process of smoking the malt and then get into the recipe.

Smoking the malt

The trick to getting the smokey flavor to stick to the grain is to (lightly) soak the grains in water overnight before you get them in the smoker. Not only will the water help to absorb smoke, but it will also help keep the grains cool and make sure you aren't roasting as much as you are smoking. It's best to soak them in a small amount of water, so if you have a wide oven pan it would work best to spread the grain as thin as possible and then heavily mist them with a spray bottle the night before. You don't want to overdo it with the soaking.

You want to use oak in the smoker, because that is traditionally what was used to kiln wheat malt used in this type of beer. You also want to soak the oak overnight because wet wood smokes and burns slower, so you get more smoke --and thicker smoke -- for less wood. You should completely submerge the wood in water.

The smoking process is simple. Put your grains on a tray or pie tin about 1/2 an inch thick. Heat up your smoker, toss in the wood, and add the grain. The heat should be kept around 120F so that you don't roast the grain. You will want to stir the grains about every 10-15 min (IMO) to make sure they all get a nice smokey flavor. Once done, leave them out to cool. For me it took about 45 min to an hour to get all the grain smokey before I took them out. I didn't do a good job of soaking the grain, so that may have contributed to the lengthy process.

One thing I found was that when the grain was hot it didn't smell very smokey, but once it cooled it was considerably more smokey. The oak doesn't give you the strong smokey smell of rauchmalt, it's a bit more acidic and roasty, but it will definitely smell smokey once cooled.

The Recipe

Some notes prior to jumping in:

* Saaz or Lublin are the traditional hops used in the recipe, so if you are trying to be "traditional" you'll want to use Lublin, or Saaz if you can't find Lublin

* The traditional mash process is an infusion mash. I've given the temperature and timeframe sequence below, but you'll need to calculate the water volume at each infusion based on your batch size and equipment.

* The ingredients, mash/batch water volume, and hop schedule are for ONE GALLON. If you want to make a larger batch, just scale up by the number of gallons.


Grain bill:

1.75 lb wheat malt, home-smoked

Mash schedule:

2.2 qt at 98F for 45 min
Raise to 122F for 60 min
Raise to 158F for 60 min

Batch sparge with 7.7 qt at 174F

Boil volume: 2.2 gal
Boil time: 90 min

Boil additions:

.30 oz Saaz at 90 min
.20 oz Saaz at 20 min
.05 tsp Irish moss at 10 min

Ferment with 1338 for 7 days at 68.

Prime with corn sugar (ideally this should be carbed to 4 vol, but if you don't have the bottles for it, carb as high as you safely can) and condition for another 3 weeks.

Batch info:

32.6 IBU
4.63 ABV
3.5 SRM
1.051 SG
1.015 FG


This beer is delicious! It has a pale ale-ish appearance with a thicker head. It has a great wheat-smoke flavor combination. The hops are not a prominent taste, but they nicely tie the wheat and smoke flavors together.

Color: The color is typical of wheat beers: a golden brown white a very white head. Because of the high carbonation the head is more reminiscent of Duvel than a hefeweizen. It is reasonably clear, although not quite kristalweizen quality. Next time I'll try using irish moss in the boil and gelatin in the fermenter to further clarify.

Smell: It has a smokey, roasted wheat smell. Very good. There's not much of a hops aroma, due mostly to not using aroma hops...

Taste: The first thing that you taste is roasty wheat, followed quickly by the smoke. Although the beer is reasonably well hopped, the hops take a back seat in the flavor and help tie the wheat and smoke together into a very nicely blended combination of flavor. I guess the best way to describe it would be a nice wheat roll lightly buttered and toasted in a smoker and covered with a vegetable spread. I don't know that that is completely accurate, but that's as close as I can get.

Mouthfeel: Very thin for a wheat beer, but solid for an ale. Goes down smooth with nice carbonation.

I'll get some pictures posted when I pop open the next bottle.

opteek 08-24-2010 07:50 PM

I'm setting up to brew this too, its sweet that you've already paved the way. Did you just brew this or has this already been bottled for a bit? I've read that it needs to age for quite some time before it's right. I've also read that this should be a heavily hopped beer, on the order of 4-5 oz for a 5 gallon batch. Any reason you went a little lower on yours? Ill be giving this one a shot this wknd I think. Can't wait to brew this one!

ReverseApacheMaster 08-26-2010 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opteek (Post 2235621)
I'm setting up to brew this too, its sweet that you've already paved the way. Did you just brew this or has this already been bottled for a bit? I've read that it needs to age for quite some time before it's right. I've also read that this should be a heavily hopped beer, on the order of 4-5 oz for a 5 gallon batch. Any reason you went a little lower on yours? Ill be giving this one a shot this wknd I think. Can't wait to brew this one!

It's been bottled for about a month or so. Like all beers it will mellow and better blend with age...

As far as hops go, yeah I see that Mosher says to use lots of hops. Many other sources suggested that the beer was hoppy at 30-35 IBU. I think historically that was appropriate to style, but in terms of modern beer trends, it's very moderate.

"Hoppy" is after all, relative term. I could see people who really love their hops going higher than what I used and enjoying this beer. I didn't want to go overboard, I think the blend reached it very reasonable and melds into a nice taste. However, like I said it's subject to personal tastes and if you're into more hops you should go that direction.

Let me know how goes. :mug:

zgoda 09-11-2010 11:04 AM

In Poland homebrewers use mix of Weyermann smoked malt and pale wheat malt when brewing Grodziskie and these beers are very close to original, nobody thinks it's cheating (even the staff from the brewery at Grodzisk says so). Classic homebrewing recipe uses them 2-to-1, but this may vary and often 1-to-1 is used instead. The key is to get light smoke flavour, not as prominent as in German rauchbiers. Originally the malt was not "smoked" in the same sense as German rauchmalz - it was dried using only light smoke. Generally in Poland we think it's not possible to clone this beer, as the original process was inconsistent (and so the quality of final product - in late 80's the beer was nearly not drinkable at all!). This year's winner in Grodzisk competition used mix of pale wheat malt, smoked wheat malt and smoked spelt malt - here's the recipe (in Polish) and some photos.

Originally Lomik hops was used, as Lubelski was in short supply these times. Lomik is similar to Lubelski but does not have such noble aroma.

Usually this beer is brewed to 8*Plato to get even lower ABV (rarely exceeding 3.5%). Original Graetzer yeast strain was preserved and is available, though not easily. Polish homebrewers use Fermentis S-33, Wyeast 1007 German Ale or Wyeast 2565 Koelsch strains, as original Grodziskie yeast are in very low supply.

I made this beer once for curiosity, but it did not fit my taste (i don't like smoke flavours).

lucasszy 12-01-2010 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zgoda (Post 2269633)
In Poland homebrewers use mix of Weyermann smoked malt and pale wheat malt when brewing Grodziskie and these beers are very close to original, nobody thinks it's cheating (even the staff from the brewery at Grodzisk says so). Classic homebrewing recipe uses them 2-to-1, but this may vary and often 1-to-1 is used instead. The key is to get light smoke flavour, not as prominent as in German rauchbiers. Originally the malt was not "smoked" in the same sense as German rauchmalz - it was dried using only light smoke. Generally in Poland we think it's not possible to clone this beer, as the original process was inconsistent (and so the quality of final product - in late 80's the beer was nearly not drinkable at all!). This year's winner in Grodzisk competition used mix of pale wheat malt, smoked wheat malt and smoked spelt malt - here's the recipe (in Polish) and some photos.

Originally Lomik hops was used, as Lubelski was in short supply these times. Lomik is similar to Lubelski but does not have such noble aroma.

Usually this beer is brewed to 8*Plato to get even lower ABV (rarely exceeding 3.5%). Original Graetzer yeast strain was preserved and is available, though not easily. Polish homebrewers use Fermentis S-33, Wyeast 1007 German Ale or Wyeast 2565 Koelsch strains, as original Grodziskie yeast are in very low supply.

I made this beer once for curiosity, but it did not fit my taste (i don't like smoke flavours).

Zgoda

Gdzie w stanach znalazłeś graetzer drożdże? Jus kilka razy robiłem grodziskie piwo i nigdy nie wychodziło.

Dzienki

Lukasz

ReverseApacheMaster 12-06-2010 11:11 PM

Damn it stop typing in Polish in my thread!!!! =p

TristanL 02-04-2011 08:19 PM

I recently smoked 3.25 lb of German Wheat Malt with white oak in the charcoal smoker for 2 hours. All I had around were metal colanders, so I smoked the malt a bit longer to expose it all. It smells great and has a lightly smokey taste with a tart acidic snap when chewed.

Did you shoot for a soft water profile? Did you need to acidify your mash with salts per normal or did the malt have a lower acidity due to the smoking? I am planning on cutting with RO water, then adding salts until I get past 50 ppm Calcium and using lactic acid if needed to tune the RA.

TristanL 02-06-2011 02:17 AM

Just brewed this today. Tasted the hydrometer sample, wow, holy smoke/bitter batman. I've never tasted a beer like this and this beer will either be hero or zero! Not sure if I overdid the smoke component. I'll report back with notes on the finished beer! Kind of wish I would have done a 5 gallon batch instead of 3.5.

ReverseApacheMaster 03-05-2011 12:44 AM

Hey just saw this. I used my local water, which is on the alkaline side. I normally do an acid rest to lower the ph but I didn't in this case. I do think softening the water is a good idea since a high sulfite:chloride ratio will accentuate the bitterness too much.

Have you had a chance to taste it?

Boleslaus 06-03-2011 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zgoda (Post 2269633)
In Poland homebrewers use mix of Weyermann smoked malt and pale wheat malt when brewing Grodziskie and these beers are very close to original, nobody thinks it's cheating (even the staff from the brewery at Grodzisk says so). Classic homebrewing recipe uses them 2-to-1, but this may vary and often 1-to-1 is used instead. The key is to get light smoke flavour, not as prominent as in German rauchbiers. Originally the malt was not "smoked" in the same sense as German rauchmalz - it was dried using only light smoke. Generally in Poland we think it's not possible to clone this beer, as the original process was inconsistent (and so the quality of final product - in late 80's the beer was nearly not drinkable at all!). This year's winner in Grodzisk competition used mix of pale wheat malt, smoked wheat malt and smoked spelt malt - here's the recipe (in Polish) and some photos.

Originally Lomik hops was used, as Lubelski was in short supply these times. Lomik is similar to Lubelski but does not have such noble aroma.

Usually this beer is brewed to 8*Plato to get even lower ABV (rarely exceeding 3.5%). Original Graetzer yeast strain was preserved and is available, though not easily. Polish homebrewers use Fermentis S-33, Wyeast 1007 German Ale or Wyeast 2565 Koelsch strains, as original Grodziskie yeast are in very low supply.

I made this beer once for curiosity, but it did not fit my taste (i don't like smoke flavours).

Really great info! I've been reading up about a lot of different historic German/Northern European styles lately and this is on the top of my list to try. I think I'll probably use your suggestion of mixing smoked malt (since I don't have a smoker). I'm also considering brewing a German porter and Lichtenhainer.


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