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Old 03-03-2013, 05:33 AM   #131
bobbrews
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For those of you with aroma and flavor issues, are you:

*Whirlpooling long enough, and not just a quick 15 min?

*Multi-stage dryhopping (discarding the old additions when adding the new)?

*Using pellets, and ensuring full contact with the beer when dryhopping?

*Doing full volume 90 min boils with no top off water?

*Brewing via All-Grain?

*Pitching enough yeast and nailing actual fermentation temps?

*Following all the tips Vinnie gave for Brewing a Double IPA (separate PDF document).

*Realizing that trub loss and differences in individual systems may skew the intended batch size? The clone says it yields a 5 gallon batch post-fermentation

*Drinking it fresh?!


The Pliny clone comes close to the original, but it is not an exact clone. The real beer is paler and drier... which hints they use less American Crystal 40 (not Crisp 45 L). I think I read that Elder is 340 IBUs Rager, but what ends up in your glass is more like 75-85 IBUs. I would up the dryhop to 4.75-5.25 total oz. maybe, boosting only the Columbus and Simcoe. There is also a tiny bit of Amarillo in the dryhop now.

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Old 03-03-2013, 04:49 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbrews View Post
For those of you with aroma and flavor issues, are you:

*Whirlpooling long enough, and not just a quick 15 min?

*Multi-stage dryhopping (discarding the old additions when adding the new)?

*Using pellets, and ensuring full contact with the beer when dryhopping?

*Doing full volume 90 min boils with no top off water?

*Brewing via All-Grain?

*Pitching enough yeast and nailing actual fermentation temps?

*Following all the tips Vinnie gave for Brewing a Double IPA (separate PDF document).

*Realizing that trub loss and differences in individual systems may skew the intended batch size? The clone says it yields a 5 gallon batch post-fermentation

*Drinking it fresh?!

The Pliny clone comes close to the original, but it is not an exact clone. The real beer is paler and drier... which hints they use less American Crystal 40 (not Crisp 45 L). I think I read that Elder is 340 IBUs Rager, but what ends up in your glass is more like 75-85 IBUs. I would up the dryhop to 4.75-5.25 total oz. maybe, boosting only the Columbus and Simcoe. There is also a tiny bit of Amarillo in the dryhop now.
I followed the recipe VC had in the BYO article for a 10g all-grain batch.

- Full 90 minute boil with no top off water (I calculated the volumes for my system and got it right)

- Pellet hops in the BK

- Whirlpooled for 15 minutes and then went through the CFC to the fermenter which took another 20-25 minutes or so (next time I would whirlpool for probably 45 minutes next time)

- Dry-hopped with flowers in a muslin bag. I left the first addition in for the duration (I didn't remove when I did the 2nd addition)

- In an attempt to compensate for not doing a hop stand with the FO addition in the BK, I doubled the 2nd hop addition and used half of that to make a hop tea (170-150 for 30 minutes, then cooled and added). I used enough water to float the flowers, but probably should have used twice that much water.

- I used MrMalty to determine the proper pitch rate and used a stir plate (then cold crashed and decanted prior to pitching).

- Ferment temp was at ~69 (higher than I would have liked, but the best I could do for now)

- 9 gallons made it into the kegs at the end of it, so a gallon shy (I dumped trub and harvested yeast from the conical)

- Force carb'd (set and forget)

- Drank as fresh as I could once it carb'd

Any advice on what I could/should have done different is more than welcome.

Like I said, a really great beer, but I think it could be better.
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:52 PM   #133
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Any advice on what I could/should have done different is more than welcome.
It sounds like you kinda know what you could have done better. But here goes...

Don't skip the hopstand. Whirlpool longer. I like a slow cooling hopstand in the 165-60 F range myself for at least 30 minutes, but 40-60 is better.

Don't use leaf hops, especially for the whirlpool and dryhop. Pellets absorb better in a quicker time frame and release more of their potency within that time.

Up the dryhop to about 5 oz. next time. And do it in stages.

Ferment in the low 60s, and let free rise to 66-68 F after 5-10 days, then dryhop at 66-68 F.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:27 AM   #134
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Thanks for the advice, bobbrews.

All of that makes sense. I've always dry-hopped with flowers, never pellets. It makes complete sense that pellets have more potency than flowers. And that makes me wonder about the difference between 1oz pellet vs. flower (in either the boil or dry-hop), on which I guess I need to educate myself. And on my to-do-list is a fermentation chamber build (already have the STC-1000), just need to find the time and approval from SWMBO on that time spend.

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Old 03-04-2013, 06:36 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbehr View Post
Is there a huge difference in the yeast? I'm doing a 2G batch so I'd probably prefer a dry US-05 unless someone really thinks another is that much better.
I do not notice a difference in this beer between WLP001 or US05.

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Originally Posted by HH60gunner View Post
I did this recipe and it tastes great, however, I got very little aroma. Any ideas why I got next to no aromas with so much hops and dry-hopping? Also I got very little head too.....
Well, one thing is that the dry hop is not actually all that large compared to many dry hops you see in contemporary IPA recipes. I see dry hops up to 6 oz. all the time, and this is only a 3.75 oz. total. Moreover, its spending a lot of time bulk aging rather than going straight on tap, so the flavor will diminish fairly rapidly.
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:44 PM   #136
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I mashed a little lower than the 151 degrees it calls for, 149 I believe. I hit 1.01 for my fg, the sample I took before kegging was superb. Has some aroma, I did bump up the Columbus and simcoe dry hops. Also used c40 instead of 45. Will be brewing this again!

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Old 03-08-2013, 08:11 PM   #137
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Just transferred to secondary for my 2nd dryhop addition. Took a FG reading and it was 1.011. Since I was low on my OG, it's somewhere around 7.1% abv. I've had the real thing a few months back and thought it was really balanced and tasted amazing, but I drank my hydrometer sample and man was it BITTER. I am hoping that after this second dryhop and after it carbs up that the aroma comes through and balances this out.

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Old 04-02-2013, 12:08 AM   #138
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Excited to brew this next week

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Old 04-06-2013, 08:30 PM   #139
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Just brewed this. Used pellets for the bittering, and whole leaf for the rest. Its what I had on hand, kinda wish I had pellets. The flowers just absorb so much wort its crazy.

For some reason, my OG came in very low. I was shooting for 1.074, but I came in at 1.064. Not really sure what happened. I BIAB, so I dont know if it was in my crush, or if it was just a batch with horrible efficiency, but it came in very low. I boiled some water and added about 5 ounces of dextrose to try and bring it up a bit, but it probably wont really matter. Smells great though!

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Old 04-08-2013, 04:39 PM   #140
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I just kegged a batch of this recipe at the end of last week and it turned out awesome! We used pellet hops for the whole thing and I gave the final dry hop additions a slight bump up. It tastes great with a robust hop experience through and through. Even with pellets there is a fair amount of volume lost, but we would certainly have lost more using whole leaf and the dry hop additions would have been more cumbersome. In a 5 1/2 gallon secondary, it was literally filled to the brim after the hop additions. I couldn't have had another ounce in there without a full on disaster. Next time I might use a bigger carboy for secondary, but this time I certainly had no risk of oxygen exposure on the surface because it was FULL. I'm glad we used pellets.

Our OG hit 1.072 and it finished out at 1.011. The only thing that would make this any better at all would be a lower gravity version so I could enjoy more of it at a time and keep my wits about me.

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