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jgourd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
810
Reaction score
48
Location
Louisiana
Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
White Labs WLP007
Yeast Starter
3000 mL
Batch Size (Gallons)
6
Original Gravity
1.069
Final Gravity
1.019
Boiling Time (Minutes)
90
IBU
83
Color
33 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
13 days @ 66F
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
8 days @ 66F
Tasting Notes
Subdued roastiness with huge northwestern hop aroma and flavor.
I'm not into very sweet beers, so I wanted this guy to dry out. It's also my first stab at this "style." Next time I will add a bit more crystal and maybe a pinch of chocolate malt or black malt.

Code:
Back in Black IPA
-----------------
Batch Size: 6.00 gal (8.39 gal preboil)
Estimated OG: 1.067 SG (actual: 1.069 SG)
Estimated FG: 1.017 SG (actual: 1.019 SG)
Estimated IBUs: 75 (Tinseth; actual: 83)
Estimated Color: 30 SRM (actual: 33 SRM)
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73% (actual: 75%)
Boil Time: 90 minutes

Grains:
14.00# Pale Malt (2-Row) US (90.32%)
1.00# De-bittered black malt (6.45%)
0.50# Caramel/Crystal 90L (3.23%)

Hops:
1.50 oz Centennial (9.1%) @90 min
1.25 oz Cascade (4.6%) @20 min
1.25 oz Centennial (9.1%) @20 min
1.25 oz Cascade (4.6%) @5 min
1.50 oz Columbus (14.5%) @5 min
2.00 oz Cascade (4.6%) @0 min
1.00 oz Columbus (14.5%) @0 min
1.00 oz Cascade (4.6%) (dry hop)
0.63 oz Columbus (13.2%) (dry hop)
0.38 oz Columbus (14.5%) (dry hop)
1.00 oz Amarillo (8.6%) (dry hop)
1.00 oz Centennial (9.1%) (dry hop)
1.00 oz Simcoe (12.2%) (dry hop)

Yeast:
White Labs WLP007 (English Ale) (English Ale)

Mash/Sparge Schedule:
Single Infusion, 152F; Batch Sparge
Mash for 60 min at 152F w/ 5.04 gal of water at 166F
Mashout w/ 2.62 gal of water at 210F; hold for 10 min
Batch sparge w/ 2.92 gal of water at 189F; hold for 10 min

Fermentation Schedule:
Primary Fermentation: 13 days @66F
Secondary Fermentation: 8 days @66F
 
Is this a clone of the 21st Amendment beer by the same name im assuming? If so sweet!

Nope. At the time that I brewed and named this beer, I was not aware of it. But since AC/DC kicks royal arse, I figure I'd keep the name. Now truth be told, I've never tasted the beer you mentioned. I might have gotten lucky and made something close without even knowing it. Who knows!
 
I like it! As i understand it, the "style" is typically going to have some Carafa malt in there as well. I based my own recipe similarly. I like how simple your recipe is. Mine got overcomplicated, but it still fermented out pretty dry.

How do you like the end result?
 
I like it! As i understand it, the "style" is typically going to have some Carafa malt in there as well. I based my own recipe similarly. I like how simple your recipe is. Mine got overcomplicated, but it still fermented out pretty dry.

How do you like the end result?

So far, I love it! I kegged it and it's been carbonating for about a week and a half. The toast comes through more and more. Some of my serious beer friends have mentioned that this is the best beer I've ever made. Not sure about that, but I will make it again...soon...and probably with more crystal. Or I might mash higher.
 
So far, I love it! I kegged it and it's been carbonating for about a week and a half. The toast comes through more and more. Some of my serious beer friends have mentioned that this is the best beer I've ever made. Not sure about that, but I will make it again...soon...and probably with more crystal. Or I might mash higher.
I'd definitely go darker, but nice job. Mine's bottled so i can't really say how the true end result will be. First tester bottle wasn't perfect, but it's only been 1wk for me. It has until mid-November to wise up so i can competition the badboy.
 
I'd definitely go darker, but nice job. Mine's bottled so i can't really say how the true end result will be. First tester bottle wasn't perfect, but it's only been 1wk for me. It has until mid-November to wise up so i can competition the badboy.

To be honest, it's pitch black. I'm not sure I could go darker in the glass even if I increased the SRM. The foam is brown like oatmeal or wheat bread and stays that way. It plays with your mind because you expect something sweet and toasty. But you get smacked in the face by hops! Love it! Oh and I decided to mash the dehusked black as opposed to cold steep overnight. I'm glad I did.
 
I made a new version of this beer recently that won 2nd place at a local competition. I don't know if I like it better than the first yet, but this one has a more pronounced roast character (although the hops still dominate--hugely):

Code:
Batch Size: 6.00 gal (9.25 gal preboil)
Estimated OG: 1.068 SG (actual: 1.068 SG)
Estimated FG: 1.016 SG (actual: 1.020 SG)
Estimated IBUs: 74 (Tinseth; actual: 78)
Estimated Color: 40 SRM (actual: 42 SRM)
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73% (actual: 72%)
Boil Time: 90 minutes

Grains:
12.50# Maris Otter Malt (81.97%)
1.50# De-bittered black malt (9.84%)
0.75# Caramel/Crystal 90L (4.92%)
0.50# Carapils/Dextrine (3.28%)

Hops:
1.50 oz Centennial (9.1%) @90 min
1.25 oz Cascade (4.6%) @20 min
1.25 oz Centennial (9.1%) @20 min
1.25 oz Cascade (4.6%) @5 min
1.50 oz Columbus (14.5%) @5 min
2.00 oz Cascade (4.6%) @0 min
1.00 oz Columbus (14.5%) @0 min
1.00 oz Cascade (4.6%) (dry hop)
1.00 oz Columbus (14.5%) (dry hop)
1.00 oz Centennial (9.1%) (dry hop)
1.00 oz Simcoe (12.2%) (dry hop)

Yeast:
White Labs WLP001 (California Ale) (California Ale)

Mash/Sparge Schedule:
Single Infusion, 154F; Batch Sparge
Mash for 60 min at 154F w/ 4.96 gal of water at 170F
Mashout w/ 2.43 gal of water at 210F; hold for 10 min
Batch sparge w/ 4.02 gal of water at 183F; hold for 10 min

Fermentation Schedule:
Primary Fermentation: 12 days @66F
Secondary Fermentation: 7 days @70F
 
The first version:

backinblack.jpg


The second version:

backinblack2.jpg
 
Thinking of brewing a beer like this and just wondering which version you liked better and/or if you have further tweaked it?
 
Thinking of brewing a beer like this and just wondering which version you liked better and/or if you have further tweaked it?

I preferred the second version. The black malt came through a bit more. I'm not sure that I would change anything at the moment. My plans are to make the second version again in a few months.
 
Final tweaks are done and I'm sticking with this version (which is close to the others posted in this thread):

Code:
Back in Black IPA
-----------------
Batch Size: 6.00 gal (10.15 gal preboil)
Estimated OG: 1.068 SG
Estimated FG: 1.016 SG
Estimated IBUs: 72 (Tinseth)
Estimated Color: 44 SRM
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70%
Boil Time: 90 minutes

Grains:
12.13# Maris Otter Malt (4.0L) (75.78%)
1.63# De-bittered black malt (413.0L) (10.16%)
1.38# Caramel/Crystal 60L (60.0L) (8.59%)
0.25# Caramel/Crystal 75L (75.0L) (1.56%)
0.63# Carapils/Dextrine (2.0L) (3.91%)

Hops:
1.50 oz Centennial (8.3%) @fwh
1.25 oz Cascade (5.3%) @20 min
1.00 oz Centennial (8.3%) @20 min
1.25 oz Cascade (5.3%) @5 min
1.50 oz Columbus (14.5%) @5 min
2.00 oz Cascade (5.3%) @0 min
1.00 oz Columbus (14.5%) @0 min
1.00 oz Cascade (5.3%) (dry hop)
1.00 oz Columbus (14.5%) (dry hop)
1.00 oz Centennial (8.3%) (dry hop)
1.00 oz Simcoe (11.8%) (dry hop)

Yeast:
White Labs WLP001 (California Ale)
3500mL starter with 1 vial; allow to ferment, crash cool, decant, and pitch

Mash/Sparge Schedule:
Single Infusion, 155F; Batch Sparge

Fermentation Schedule:
14 days @66F
6 days @70F (dry hop)
3 days @35F (crash cool)

This beer is great in that you get that over-the-top hop aroma and flavor that blends well with the roast early on. As the beer matures, the hop aroma (and some flavor) fades a bit to reveal a more roasty character. I love how the beer changes throughout its life. I can't say what it's like after three months because I can't keep any that long! :D
 
I've been looking for a good recipe in this style... I like the sound of this one, I'm gonna try it this weekend!
 
I've been looking for a good recipe in this style... I like the sound of this one, I'm gonna try it this weekend!

Enjoy it! I am brewing this more often now, particularly in the colder months. It is a great brew. And like I said before, the hops are the focus early on and fade over a few months to reveal more of the roast from the carafa. If you want more roast early on, a less aggressive dry hop and flavor hop addition would help. I *may* try this next time.
 
This beer is absolutely delicious, I'm doing it again (actually at the lhbs buying grain and yeast for the brew now) this will be my house beer.
 
can't wait to try this out. i have way too much debittered black malt. thanks for providing the only recipe i can find that has 10% of the stuff!
 
I have a question. Do you really notice much of a difference with the 75L addition over adding a bit more 60L?
 
Not really. I added it because I had a bit of it left and wanted to get rid of it. You can go all 60L or all 75L. Up to you. The focus will be the debittered black (to an extent) and, of course, the hops.
 
Great, thanks! That's what I figured. I'm doing the same thing - I have everything on hand except for the Carapils, which I picked up last night.

I did, however, forget to bring my black malt w/ me and the stuff I have is not milled. This is a bit off topic - but do you think I could get away with grinding the black malt with a spice grinder? I understand that it probably won't contribute much fermentable sugar so the grind may not be really important as long as I don't crush it up really fine...

What's debittered malt taste like? I've only used Chocolate Malt, and one time I used too much of it I think and it added an almost astringent character to the beer. Obviously this isn't a problem since you're making a delicious beer with it. What is the profile of debittered malt like?

Thanks again for the great recipe, looking forward to it. I have enough debittered for probably 15gal worth (I only brew 3gal max, usually) so I may be making this beer a couple of times :)
 
I would not grind the debittered black in a spice grinder. You want to crush the grains, so instead I'd put them in a zip-loc and use a rolling pin or something like that to gently crush the grains open. Debittered black malt is just black malt with the husks removed. This reduces the grain's flavor impact in the beer (or at least the astringency sometimes leeched from the husks).
 
I finished this last night. Ended up clearing out some bits and pieces of hops packets that I had in the fridge. I was a bit short w/ the late addition cascade so I substituted in some amarillo. Same w/ the columbus, so I added nugget and chinook.

I'm very excited about this.

Code:
OG 1.065
FG 1.016
IBU 100+
SRM 53
Safale US-05 w/ starter

3 gallons all grain

Mash 154F, Ferment 63F

%	LB	OZ	MALT OR FERMENTABLE	PPG	°L
76%	7	0	 American Two-row Pale	37	1	~
10%	0	15	 Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L	34	60	~
10%	0	14	 Dingemans Debittered Black malt	34	550	~
4%	0	6	 Dextrin (CaraPils) Malt	33	2	~

USE	TIME	OZ	VARIETY	FORM	AA
boil	60 mins	0.75	 Centennial	leaf	10.0
boil	20 mins	1.0	 Cascade	leaf	5.5
boil	20 mins	0.5	 Centennial	leaf	10.0
boil	5 mins	0.5	 Amarillo	pellet	7.0
boil	5 mins	0.5	 Cascade	leaf	5.5
boil	5 mins	0.75	 Centennial	leaf	10.0
boil	5 mins	0.1	 Columbus	pellet	15.4
boil	5 mins	0.7	 Nugget	pellet	13.0
boil	1 min	0.25	 Amarillo	pellet	7.0
boil	1 min	0.5	 Cascade	leaf	5.5
boil	1 min	0.75	 Centennial	leaf	10.0
boil	1 min	0.2	 Chinook	pellet	13.0
boil	1 min	0.3	 Nugget	pellet	13.0
dry hop	7 days	0.5	 Cascade	pellet	5.5
dry hop	7 days	0.5	 Centennial	pellet	10.0
dry hop	7 days	0.5	 Nugget	pellet	13.0
dry hop	7 days	0.5	 Simcoe	pellet	13.0
 
I'm thinking about making this, then kegging with 75%N2/25%CO2 instead of straight CO2.

What do you think the results of this would be? Good, bad, or awesome?
 
I'm thinking about making this, then kegging with 75%N2/25%CO2 instead of straight CO2.

What do you think the results of this would be? Good, bad, or awesome?

Should be really good. I typically undercarb this one to get a lighter CO2 feel.
 
I've done several versions since the two posted in this thread, but they were very similar. It was mostly altering hops to see what kind of flavor impact I could get. I recently made another version that included chocolate malt. It is now dry hopping. I plan to keg it sometime early next week.

Code:
Back in Black IPA
-----------------
Batch Size: 11.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.070 SG
Estimated FG: 1.021 SG
Estimated IBUs: 67 (Tinseth)
Estimated Color: 49 SRM
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70%
Boil Time: 90 minutes

Grains:
21.50# Maris Otter Malt (4.0L) (68.53%)
1.75# De-bittered black malt (413.0L) (5.58%)
3.25# Caramel/Crystal 75L (75.0L) (10.36%)
0.75# Caramel/Crystal 90L (90.0L) (2.39%)
1.25# Carapils/Dextrine (2.0L) (3.98%)
1.88# Chocolate Malt (350.0L) (5.98%)
1.00# Rice hulls (0.0L) (3.19%)

Hops:
3.25 oz Centennial (8.3%) (first wort)
2.00 oz Cascade (5.3%) @20 min
1.50 oz Centennial (8.3%) @20 min
2.25 oz Cascade (5.3%) @5 min
1.00 oz Columbus (14.5%) @5 min
2.75 oz Cascade (5.3%) @0 min
1.50 oz Columbus (14.5%) @0 min
1.125 oz Cascade (5.3%) (dry hop)
1.125 oz Columbus (14.5%) (dry hop)
1.125 oz Centennial (8.3%) (dry hop)
1.125 oz Amarillo (6.9%) (dry hop)

Yeast:
Danstar Windsor (Dry Ale)

Mash/Sparge Schedule:
Single Infusion, 154F, 60 min; Batch Sparge

Fermentation Schedule:
14 days @ 65F
7 days @ 70F (dry hop)
3 days @ 40F (cold crash)

Note that the rice hulls are there to help with recirculation in my HERMS system. You normally wouldn't need them. I also wanted to try out the Windsor yeast (plus this was a last minute brew and I didn't have time to make a starter).
 
jgourd: why did you change the yeast in the 2nd version of the recipe? I made an extract recipe for a Black IPA/CDA inspired by Deschutes Hop in the Dark. It was damn delicious but a little too malty. I always use WLP001 and I heard WLP007 has higher attenuation and may ferment out a bit more leaving me with a PREFERRED drier finish. Thinking of changing my recipe by switching out the yeast but afraid of fruity esters. not my favorite. WHat differences did you notice based on switching the yeast?
 
jgourd: why did you change the yeast in the 2nd version of the recipe? I made an extract recipe for a Black IPA/CDA inspired by Deschutes Hop in the Dark. It was damn delicious but a little too malty. I always use WLP001 and I heard WLP007 has higher attenuation and may ferment out a bit more leaving me with a PREFERRED drier finish. Thinking of changing my recipe by switching out the yeast but afraid of fruity esters. not my favorite. WHat differences did you notice based on switching the yeast?

I like to try different yeasts to see the differences they impart. I tend to ferment this beer colder than one might think (somewhere in the 62-64F range) which tends to inhibit the esters. I suppose now that I've done this beer with WLP001, WLP007, Nottingham, Windsor, and US-05 that they are all good -- but I prefer WLP007. I go for dry yeast (mostly US-05) when I don't have the time to make a starter. Now I have tried to increase the chocolate malt in this beer (and reducing the debittered black) which makes it a bit interesting. It's initially hoppy, but over time (maybe 4 months) the hops fade and the malt and chocolate come shining through, thereby changing the beer into sort of a bitter stout (which I kind of like). I have never noticed any esters using WLP007 and fermenting at a low temperature (64F) with this beer. And yes, it does make for a drier beer. If you want a drier beer, you can also reduce the amount of crystal malt that you steep. Anyways, to help reduce esters, make sure that you pitch when the wort is already at 64F and not too much hotter. A lot of folks cool the beer to their water temps (maybe 75F) and then pitch before putting into a 64F fermentation chamber. If the yeast lag is short, you may get some fermentation in the 70s which may get you those esters you don't want. And if you notice that it doesn't get down to the final gravity you are looking for, you can gently rouse the yeast by stirring a bit to get it going again. I can sometimes get a few extra gravity points this way.
 
Thanks for the tip! I usually ferment at room temp which is around 70-75. My first batch with wlp001 i let sit for 5 weeks at this temp. If I used 007, and fermented in 65F range in the primary, how long would you recommend? Would I have to keep it in this temp range after primary is finished? In other words, if I let the brew sit at 70F during dry hopping and bottling, would I have issues?
 
Keep it at 65F until most of fermentation is done (check with a hydrometer). For me, that's usually around 2 weeks. Esters are mainly produced early on during fermentation, so once you're down to 1.030 or so, you should be fine to increase the temp if you need to. Dry hopping on the cooler side is fine too (65F) or at room temps. I've been experimenting with cooler dry hopping (fermentation temps) and also for shorter duration (3 days). So far, I don't notice much difference from a 3-day dry hop and a 7-day dry hop except maybe that the shorter dry hopping time results in a better beer with less hop astringency. And if you go warmer during dry hopping and bottling, there should be no issues.
 
Awesome, thanks for the advice. I did a bit of research and your advice correlates. I brewed my recipe last night & I plan to keep it down to 65F for at least a week or until the airlock stops...so far no activity 8hrs after pitching a 1 liter starter. WE like the hop astringency in our recipe. THis time keeping everything the same but the yeast.
 
I made this about a year ago as one of my first all grain recipes and will be making it again this weekend! Very good
 

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